SUBJECT: THE PHOENIX PROJECT FROM A GENIE FORUM FILE: UFO2505 PART 8 Filename: Phoenix8.Reb Type : Rebuttal Author : Joseph Harris Date : 10/26/92 Desc : Rebuttal to Jack Mathias Note : Also See Phoenix7.Reb (Phoenix7.Zip) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- JM> And I also don't doubt the information supplied regarding your talk JM> with officials at Beal. What he said is true. However the report JM> never repeat never stated that the planes in question came out of JM> Beal. That doesn't jive with The Phoenix report Jack... here, I'll let you read it again, and THEN tell me that the report "never, repeat never, stated that the planes in question came out of Beale." * * * Memo August 12, 1989 From Staff # 1 To: Staff # 2 Our contacts in the [Air Force] verify that on the [night] of August 10, 1989, at the time indicated in Report # 1 of that date, that eight F-4's, [scrambled from Beale [AFB]], CA. They had a brief radar-lock, on a "bogie" in the area described. However, they lost the target, [due to ground-] [clutter] when it suddenly descended into the mountainous terrain. They returned to the base when a further sweep of the area proved fruitless. You're right, the [AF] had a blip on their radar, but lost it when the ship dropped into that 20-mile approach corridor between the valleys and the radar dead zone. [ The bracketed portions are for emphasis.] [ Each one will be discussed below... ] * * * This is a DIRECT quote from the report Jack. Anyone here who saves reports like this can verify this for me. JM> Nor did it claim whose planes they were. The Air Force is mentioned 3 times in that one memo alone. JM> Personally, I would think a F-4 equipped with nose cameras would be JM> the ideal craft to be used if there might have been a chance to get JM> pictures. Ideal? First, taking pics of the object with an F-4 is impossible unless they take the jet pure vertical to take the picture. Their cameras are pointed at the ground, not out in front of them. If they wanted to know where the "object" was going, THEY WOULDN'T USE AN AIRCRAFT THAT IS SLOWER THAN EVERY OTHER A.F. INTERCEPTOR!. The F-4s max speed is Mach 2. The F-15's max speed is 2.5! (roughly 350 mph faster than the F-4) Also, for a prolonged chase, the F-15's range is required, and far exceeds that of the F-4. The F-4s, with drop tanks, max out at 1978 miles. The F-15's range is 3,570 miles! (also with drop tanks) The F-15 also has the "look-down" "shoot-down" radar, which means, unlike the F-4, no target could get "lost" due to ground clutter. Another major problem is that F-4s equipped for low level recon fly VERY low, like, 100 feet off the deck. THEY HAVE -NO- TERRAIN GUIDANCE EQUIPMENT. It's entirely "seat-of-the-pants" flying by pilot skill alone. They fly and take pictures during daylight hours only! Which also means, (guess what?), THEIR CAMERAS CAN NOT TAKE PHOTOS AT NIGHT! Your ideal aircraft to send up after a bogie? Slow, blind, and toothless. JM> But my thinking would be that these planes might be more interested JM> in where the unknowns went and not what they were. I am sure they JM> [the elite forces behind the mystery] have sufficient pictures of JM> alien craft already. Common Sense dictates that, even if you wanted to just "see where they're going," the F-15 is the obvious choice. The G'vt could then go in later and take as many detailed hi-alt pics of the area that they wanted to with the U-2, or the SR-71, with no-one the wiser. As John Hicks said, I too, have no axe to grind with you or the Phoenix Project. I -DO- have an axe ready for deliberate mis-information. Unfortunatly, I downloaded this mail after leaving the University of Nevada's Library. Consequently, I will be preparing another report about the rest of the K-2 claims shortly. I have to wait for one more piece of mail before I can post this report, so please be patient. JM> If the Phoenix Project has anything to say on this topic you can JM> rest assured that I will transmit it. Jack Do me a favor Jack, and ask them these questions for me: 1. How can 8 F-4s be scrambled from a base that has NEVER operated fighter aircraft of ANY type? 3. Why did the Phoenix Project NOT follow standard scientific procedures with regards to their magnatometer readings? (collect he data, and then -verify- it by different means. Thermal Imaging, ground penetrating radar, or ultra-sonics?) And the biggie... 4. WHY DID THEY WAIT THREE YEARS BEFORE RELEASING THIS REPORT!? Joe. ********************************************** * THE U.F.O. BBS - http://www.ufobbs.com/ufo * **********************************************