SUBJECT: ERIE UFO SIGHTING FILE: UFO1430 [The following is an edited version of Sunday, January 8, 1989 online CO with Rick Dell'Aquila discussing his investigation of the Lake Erie UFO] 8:07:29 PM EST Sunday, January 8, 1989 User User ID Nod Rm Name / Forum Area ---- ------------ --- --- ----------------- 36 76012,3361 MRT 5 Ted 46 71330,3655 JAK 5 GREG 56 75376,1620 CVK 5 Dale 63 73367,472 CVK 5 Rick 65 76004,2063 ACM 5 mike h 78 70511,17 CRZ 5 Mike 95 72377,1264 ANY 5 jc 94 71450,3504 ANN 5 Bert 103 71340,276 SOR 5 Mark.Y 129 76703,603 DCI 5 Jim Horn VETSIG (Ted) Our special Guest tonight is Cleveland attorney and UFO investigator, Rick Dell'Aquila. Rick and his investigative partner, Dale Wedge, are responsible for the investigation of the Lake Erie UFO. In addition to numerous files on this subject in LIBrary 10, the next issue of The MUFON Journal will feature this case in an article titled "Ohio Flap". Any opening remarks Rick? GA (5,Rick) Thanks Ted...Hello everyone. I first became aware of this case on reading an article in the Cleveland Plain Dealer 3/7/88, attributing a series of UFO reports by the Coast Guard and civilians near the CEI coal-burning power plant over Lake Erie on 3/4/88 to misidentifications of the planets Venus and Jupiter which were in close proximity to each other that weekend. The article quoted a local astronomer that lights reported entering and leaving the "planets" were "spontaneous gas emissions" from the planets' surface. I would have turned to the next page but for this ridiculous explanation. Instead, I phoned the astronomer who confirmed that the planetary explanation was his theory because "if they did not relate what they saw to the planets, then they must have been seeing the planets." But the first time he had heard the "spontaneous gas" explanation was when he read it in the paper himself. By now I was very curious about the accuracy of the rest of the article and I phoned my co-investigator, Dale Wedge. Dale and I began an investigation and ran a classified ad we received a response from someone who had taken a photo of a brightly glowing triangular object over his yard that same night near the Perry Nuclear Plant on Lake Erie and in the course of our investigation, we found several other witnesses who have seen some things over the same period. We also obtained a Coast Guard incident report on the sighting and interviewed witnesses on the beach with the Coast Guard. They described several small brightly glowing triangular objects zipping over the lake leaving a wake of ice below and behind them. These objects were emitted from a large football shaped object that ultimately landed on the ice below the horizon. The ice was crackling loudly and in an abnormal manner until the object landed and everything came deathly silent. The local CSICOP membership contends that the large object was the planets and the smaller triangular objects were the wings of seagull illuminated by moonlight. The photograph was examined by Dr. Maccabee and found to depict a uniformly glowing bright triangular object. ga (Ted) I'll now open the floor to ? ga (5,Bert) ? (5,Bert) Rick, can you tell us how you were able to come by the Coast Guard report? Also. What do you have now in the way of results of FOIA requests, etc. GA (5,Rick) A copy of the report was obtained by other investigators through the FOIA after the Coast Guard first denied its existence. I originally obtained a copy from a confidential source...However, as I say, the Coast Guard has since released it through FOIA. ga (Ted) At the MUFON meeting in Lincoln you were discussing the Lake Erie UFO photos with Dr. Bruce Maccabee when Bert and I walked up to you. Has the good Dr. done any analysis yet? And if so what are the results? ga (5,Rick) Yes, he has examined it and some other information we sent him concerning the camera...His opinion is that the image depicted is not the result of a flaw in the film or camera, but an accurate depiction of some uniformly glowing triangular shaped object...Based upon his calculations and our measurements at the scene, the roughly equilateral triangle is approximately 25-35 feet tall. ga (Ted) ga Bert (5,Bert) Rick the fact that the CG has released the report via FOIA seems to acknowledge that something did indeed go on. Did any additional information get released as well, or do you think they release the copy simply because they knew it was already captured. Also, who did they release the report to? (5,Rick) Dale and I have been knocking ourselves out trying to take this investigation to the next logical step, which is to interview the USCG themselves. This has been an exercise in futility to this point. I do not believe that there has been an explicit admission by the USCG that something unexplained went on. Their position is that their personnel misidentified the planets for a period exceeding one hour using binoculars and describing the erratic movements, spotlights, colors, etc. which are in the report and the witnesses description. The report was printed in a CAUS Bulletin and released to several other investigators after Dale and I made it public. ga (Ted) What did the CG have to say about their comment that they were told "This is out of their league? " GA (5,Mark.Y) ? (5,Rick) This was a statement made to the civilian witnesses the hearsay we have is to the effect that the USCG wanted to go out on the lake the next day to investigate but were told not to do so since the matter was "out of their league." ga (Ted) Mark Y is next GA Mark (5,Mark.Y) (Slightly off the topic.) Were there multiple evenings of sightings or is this an isolated case? GA (5,Rick) There have been multiple evening and multiple witness sightings over this period, all seemingly within a 10-15 square mile area we have reports and investigations on-going over this area from September 1987 to as recently as November 1988...But that weekend seemed to be a peak period. ga (Ted) Is there any evidence of missing time with any of the witnesses? ga (5,Rick) No. ga (Ted) Can you tell us anything about the most recent sightings? ga (5,Rick) The 11/88 sighting involved a brightly lit cigar shape viewed in the daylight for about 15 minutes which is identical to one reported by two witnesses in September 1987. There have been reports of objects hovering over or near the nuclear power plant and one report of a low level fly-by by an unmarked black helicopter, among some other things. ga (5,Bert) ? (Ted) Ga Bert (5,Bert) Regarding the question of missing time is this issue routinely explored when you interview a witness? GA (5,Rick) Dale and I have been particularly sensitive to this question especially since one of the witnesses was pregnant at the time of the sighting. It would be premature for us to say anything about that subject without more than we have to this point. ga (5,Bert) follow (Ted) GA Bert (5,Bert) Are you saying then that the question of missing time is indeed discussed with your witnesses, but that it is premature to reveal it here? GA (5,Rick) No...I don't want you to jump to that conclusion...but we do routinely explore the question with the witnesses. ga (5,Dale) ! (Ted) GA Dale (5,Dale) I just wanted to note for Bert that the witness did have her baby in September of 1988. ga (Ted) What did it's eyes look like (HAH!) How many people, in total , have now seen this UFO? ga (5,Rick) On the night in question there were 4 civilians and two USCG personnel on the beach and two witnesses present in the area of the photograph. ga (Ted) How about other nights (or days? ) ga (5,Rick) We have been talking to about two dozen people to date. ga (5,Dale) ! (Ted) Ga Dale (5,Dale) On the question of the release of the USCG document, I think it is noteworthy to explain that an underling from the USCG released the document to a news source who wants to remain anonymous. Once that was done, I believe that they could not hide the fact that there was one, therefore, they had to release it to others. From that point, the well has dried up also, in Just Caus, someone asked through FOIA about USCG documents after the document we have. The USCG said they had no such documents, but Caus put the document that we have next to this letter of denial. You figure it out.ga (5,Bert) ? (Ted) Ga Bert (5,Bert) Rick. You and Dale have put together a nice collection of documents which give a rather comprehensive coverage of what happened the peak evening. Once you had all this info together along with the CG report, did you go to the news media with it?GA (5,Dale) ! (5,Rick) We have sent copies and letters to Television ,radio and print media throughout this part of Ohio with very little response, except for a local UHF TV station which interviewed me after their airing of UFO Coverup: Live. They have suggested a longer segment on this case with me but that has not yet materialized. ga (Ted) GA Dale (5,Dale) Correct me if I'm wrong Rick. I believe Rick contacted the media in an effort to gain information instead of publicizing it, up to the UFO Live program. There was a lady on an FM station that said her son was a USCG person at the scene of the incident on that night. Rick tried to get a copy of the tape but the radio station did not respond. We were contacted about going on TV around the time of the sightings, but felt that this would jeopardize the investigation with other who would state they saw the object for publicity sake. Now, I hope Rick can get on TV to promote the case and get more info from sources that may know something about that night.ga (Ted) mike h. did you have a ? ga (5,mike h) yep. Dale: I really hate to bring this up, but is the Sept. birth related to your now notorious benevolent disinformation campaign? And what are we supposed to believe about the Erie information if this is indeed the case? ga (5,Dale) Rick had no knowledge of what I was doing. He has chastised me for it, since he has put so much time into this case. This, in my opinion is Rick's case, and in that manner, you should only give credibility to his facts, and not mine. Rick is a credible attorney and investigator and should not be questioned.ga (5,mike h) sorry (Ted) No one here is above "questioning" but I think I understand what you mean. Rick have you read any of the Cooper/Lear "stuff" and if so what do you think? ga (5,Rick) Yes I have read those materials and I am waiting for evidence as far as my personal opinion: I HOPE its not true. ga (Ted) SO do I. Several months ago we had a member by the name of Neil Palumbo who was investigating a case of UFO crashing through the ice near Rochester. Have you any knowledge of this person or his case? ga (5,Rick) Someone mentioned it to me briefly and I find this one of the more interesting aspects of these cases...That (At least at Lake Erie) the object landed below the horizon onto the ice, where the smaller triangular objects returned and hovered over it as it emitted several bright lights, one of the triangle shone a spotlight onto the large object and at some point the entered the large object one by one, whereupon it shut off its lights and was no longer visible...But these things have been reported from time to time over Lake Erie as well as Lake Ontario. ga (Ted) I think it was Palumbo that claimed to have evidence of an under water structure. Dale, do you remember any of this? ga (5,Dale) Yes. I believe that Neil had been working at a library and ran across some maps that showed (to him) that there were some under water bases in Lake Ontario. I don't recall the extent or the information that he had on this. I believe that there was something in LIB10 on this at one time.ga (5,Bert) ! (Ted) Perhaps in light of recent information it might be a good idea to contact him. GA Bert (5,Bert) As I recall Palumbo and several others have been investigating UFOs entering and leaving the water at a sight near Toronto. They apparently had been studying this for some time and were going to put the story together in a book that would come out in 1990. I remember he said that what they think is some sort of base could actually be seen in some satellite photographs, but he would not tell us where to look, because he didn't want to give the story away. I got the feeling that he eventually was afraid he told us too much and that is why he stopped showing up here on Sunday evenings. In any case, I think Dale actually spoke to him on the phone. Is that right Dale. GA (5,Dale) ! (Ted) Ga Dale (5,Dale) I wanted to say Bert is absolute correct, the maps that Neil spoke about were satellite photo maps that he ran across. Where he never did disclose to me. I was unable to gain information in talking to him and just sent him copies of our information at that time.ga (Ted) His PPN is 71211,2217 (5,Rick) Before we sign-off here, I wanted to leave my post office box in case anyone wants to drop me a line, or if Mr. Palumbo should read this: P.O. Box 29163 Parma, Ohio 44129 (5,Dale) ! (Ted) GA Dale (5,Dale) I have a question for Rick. Rick and I have been upset that this case hasn't made the MUFON Journal, since it gives many different elements not seen in a lot of cases (e.g., official documents, photos, and multiple independent witnesses). Rick, when did you find out that they would put your article in the Journal and what will it say as opposed to the article that was written last year, but not published? ga (5,Rick) This has been a disappointment for me apparently, MUFON will print a VERY preliminary summary which was sent to them in April of 1988 when Dale and I were hip deep in the investigation (complete with telephone problems). The first notice that I had about the article being printed came from Ted this morning. I regret that MUFON didn't contact us sooner before printing the article since we have so much more and better information to add now. ga (5,Dale) ! (Ted) GA Dale (5,Bert) ! (5,Dale) I was just wondering if this was done in order to get the Central States most important case in the Journal before an award was made? Dan Wright stated that this was the most important case in this sector of MUFON. Perhaps it had to be justified through printing in the Journal.ga (Ted) Let me state how this information came to me. In preparation for tonight's CO I called Walt Andrus (I think on Thursday.) I asked him why this case hadn't gotten more attention as it was fascinating to me. He said that it was to appear in the next issue which was at the printers and should be in the mail in a week to 10 days. He also stated that the article was to be titled "Ohio Flap". Perhaps either Dale or Rick should confirm this. GA (5,Bert) ! (5,Rick) I guess I am pleased that it will finally be publicized, but as I say, the article which will appear does not do justice to the scope and details of the on-going "flap". ga (Ted) GA Bert (5,Bert) Just for the record, it's worth noting that in the FENWICK files, which are on LIB10, there is reference to a UFO base located in Lake Ontario near Hamilton. That would place it in the same area that Palumbo et al are doing their research. I would recommend taking a look at that part of the file, Rick. I say "that part", because it is quite long and much of it seems pretty "far out". GA (5,Rick) Thanks for the reminder...I did download that file, I believe from Paranet...I'll have to look at it again. ga (Ted) Dale did you have a comment? ga (5,Dale) No sir. I just guess maybe one. I wish Rick could have given justice to the upcoming MUFON article by having the chance to upgrade his article. The article you will read was done in the midst of the investigation, and not towards the end. I guess lastly, Rick, is there anything available through the mail about the investigation that can be given out rather cheaply to those interested?ga (5,Bert) ! (5,Rick) Yes...If anyone wants more info, write me at the Post Office Box. I'm a little slow in responding, but I do get around to it, and since we intend to continue pressing this investigation, there seems to be new developments regularly. ga (Ted) GA Bert (5,Bert) Just wondered if you had considered sending some of your material to UFO magazine or UFO Universe? GA (5,Rick) Dale and I have talked about that and we will probably do something along those lines eventually. ga (Ted) What is this I hear about a book in the works? ga (5,Dale) ! (5,Rick) Why does every investigation need to conclude in a book? I think this sort of thing is the best way to get the most current information out there. ga (Ted) Dale care to comment? ga (5,Dale) I agree with Rick, but one thing that I would like to do is get Rick out here to test out my handy dandy new VHS Camera and do a poorly done video to show you what we did throughout this. This could help others understand what we went through, what was done, and what can be done better. The Coyne's did it Rick, remember? (Ted) The Coyne's ? ga (5,Dale) The Coyne's did a video on investigation. Rather good, but I think we could make a video that is really quite interesting.ga (Ted) Shirley and George? ga (5,Dale) yeah.ga (Ted) I'd like to see that. ga (5,Rick) Not a bad idea. ga (Ted) Sounds like you have a winner Dale! ga (5,Rick) Let's talk later. ga (5,Dale) The thing is this is if this ever happens again, I want to film it as it happens from start to finish. Rick and I were left to audio tape, we taped everything. Video would be a great asset for us all.ga (Ted) Any other ?s ga (Ted) Rick I want to thank you for spending your evening with us. It has been informative and interesting. I will forward a copy of this CO to you after I have cleaned it up. Again, thanks and don't be such a stranger to the ISSUES forum. We are international and would love to have you visit us from time to time. ga (5,Rick) Thanks I'll stay in touch...Are you going to be in Las Vegas this summer? ga (Ted) I sure hope so. Anyone else? ga Let's hear it from those that plan to go to the MUFON Las Vegas symposium. GA (Ted) ME! (5,Mike) Hope so! (5,Dale) Need a baby sitter (Ted) Take him with you! (5,JIM) Do MUFONs bite? (5,Rick) grrr ********************************************** * THE U.F.O. BBS - http://www.ufobbs.com/ufo * **********************************************