Path: merk!spdcc!mintaka!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!usc!samsung!munnari.oz.au!metro!macuni!sunc!ifarqhar From: ifarqhar@sunc.mqcc.mq.oz.au (Ian Farquhar) Newsgroups: sci.crypt Subject: Re: Cloning Razor Blades Keywords: Signatures, Authorization Message-ID: <807@macuni.mqcc.mq.oz> Date: 27 Nov 90 22:04:11 GMT References: <1990Nov23.202021.5567@weitek.COM> Sender: news@macuni.mqcc.mq.oz Organization: Macquarie University, Sydney Lines: 39 In article <1990Nov23.202021.5567@weitek.COM> wallis@weitek.UUCP (Bob Wallis) writes: >My question is, does anyone know of a way to do this that imposes >minimal overhead on the authenticator? Are there other commercial >products that try to do this? It is OK to put a big burden on the >originator, since the signing part is done only once at the factory. The Atari Lynx reportedly uses RSA or something close. An image of the ROM (probably some sort of checksum) is apparently encrypted during manufacture using a private key, and the image is sorted in the ROM. When the cartridge is booted, a small ROM routine produces the checksum image, and decrypts (using the public key) the checksum sorted on the cart. If they compare properly, the cartridge is run. If not, the cartridge does not run. They Lynx has quite a bit of computing power, so the authentication does not take long (about 8 - 12 secs). It is only done at the start of the boot process, before any code in the cartridge has run, so you cannot perform any software hacks to avoid this authentication. Only the public key is contained in the Lynx ROMS, and unless you have a fast method of factorising numbers into primes (I am 99% sure that such a system exists and is known to the NSA and similarly paranoid orginisations). Additionally, Atari places a level of legal protection over the top, as developers have to sign a legal agreement that would prevent them producing cartridges even if they knew the private key. Even so, Atari do not tell developers any of this, and all I have said is from piecing together reports and a bit of common sense. There was also an article on the Internet News that stated that NCSA permission was obtained to export this technology, which makes sense. Please note that Atari Computers (manufacturers of the Lynx) and Atari Games (arcade machines and HES carts) are separate companies. The authentication system itself as well as they Lynx as a whole was developed by Epyx, who were reportedly using the authentication as a way of ensuring game quality. -- Ian Farquhar Phone : 61 2 805-9404 Office of Computing Services Fax : 61 2 805-7433 Macquarie University NSW 2109 Also : 61 2 805-7205 Australia EMail : ifarqhar@suna.mqcc.mq.oz.au From: mae@vygr.Eng.Sun.COM (Mike Ekberg, Sun {DSGG.DGDO.Mid-Range Graphics.Egret(GS)} MS 8-04) Newsgroups: sci.crypt Subject: Re: Cloning Razor Blades Keywords: Signatures, Authorization Message-ID: <3738@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> Date: 29 Nov 90 23:57:34 GMT References: <1990Nov23.202021.5567@weitek.COM> Sender: news@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca. Lines: 28 In article <1990Nov23.202021.5567@weitek.COM> wallis@weitek.UUCP (Bob Wallis) writes: >I was told that when Nintendo came out with their newest video game >system, they intended to sell the box cheap, but really soak the >customers for the game cartriges (the razor blades). In order protect Nintendo actually chose a simpler method. They patented the mechanical connection of the cartridge with the box. I believe the Atari suite was patent infringement on the cart packaging. When you think about it, this is an elegant solution. Nintendo liscenses the cartridge mechanisms to 3rd parties at this point. I think they originally actually supplied the physical cartridges, which allowed them to restrict competition by limiting the numbers of carts sold, but were sued for restraint of trade. As an aside, quite out of net.crypt subject range, people thought Atari did the same thing w/ the VCS (i.e. cheap box, "expensive" carts). This was not true. They actually made a good margin on the box as well. It was just 6507(?), about $2.00 at the time, plus a small VLSI (TIA), and some glue logic and plastic and connectors. I imagine Nintendo is the same, with possibly some VRAM added. -- # mike (sun!mae), M/S 8-04 "The people are the water, the army are the fish" Mao Tse-tung From: ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith) Newsgroups: sci.crypt Subject: Re: Cloning Razor Blades Message-ID: <36423@cup.portal.com> Date: 1 Dec 90 11:28:22 GMT References: <1990Nov23.202021.5567@weitek.COM> <3738@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 22 The Atari VCS was also one of the ugliest things to program imaginable. Software was responsible for various critical timing aspects in a game, requiring various branches through the code to take exactly the same time, requiring the programmer to stuff NOPs in to keep things balanced. The Intellivision (sp?), on the other hand, was quite a bit more sophisticated. 10 or 16 bit processor (depending on how you looked at it)(yes, I really said 10 bits back there). An operating system that handled object motion, animation, and interaction, and managed the controls for the programmer. And the screwiest graphics format I've every seen. To tie this into sci.crypt, there were people working on the Intellivision III who wanted to use some sort of cryptography system to prevent others from producing cartridges. If the video game industry had not nearly died, prompting Mattel to get out of that market, this would have been a neat machine. 68000 and custom graphics chips. In fact, the prototype was in many ways similar to the Amiga, but in 1983. Tim Smith From: ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith) Newsgroups: sci.crypt Subject: Re: Cloning Razor Blades Message-ID: <36513@cup.portal.com> Date: 4 Dec 90 02:37:56 GMT References: <1990Nov23.202021.5567@weitek.COM> <3738@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> <36423@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 9 Oops. Where I said Intellivison III in the previous article, I meant the machine that would have been released after the Intellivision III. The Intellivision III used the same processor as the Intellivision (GI 1600 - the chip from hell). This has no relevance to sci.crypt, but I felt I should correct this factual error in my previous posting. Tim Smith From: mae@vygr.Eng.Sun.COM (Mike Ekberg, Sun {DSGG.DGDO.Mid-Range Graphics.Egret(GS)} MS 8-04) Newsgroups: sci.crypt Subject: Re: Cloning Razor Blades Keywords: Signatures, Authorization Message-ID: <4176@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> Date: 7 Dec 90 22:46:53 GMT References: <1990Nov23.202021.5567@weitek.COM> <3738@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> Sender: news@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca. Lines: 34 In article <3738@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> mae@vygr.Eng.Sun.COM (Mike Ekberg, Sun {DSGG.DGDO.Mid-Range Grahics.Egret(GS)} MS 8-04) writes: >Nintendo actually chose a simpler method. They patented the >mechanical connection of the cartridge with the box. I believe the >Atari suite was patent infringement on the cart packaging. After thinking about what I wrote, I realized that I did not mean to imply that Nintendo did not use encryption. And of course the next weekend, the S.F. Chronicle (Dec. 2, 1990, This World, p. 7) had an article on Nintnedo by David Sheff. "Atari Games claimed to have "unlocked the lockout chip, " as a Tengen [an Atari Games Corp. subsidary] spokesman puts it, and made its own games and sent them to stores. Nintendo claims to have proof that Atari Games illegally obtained specifications and codes of Nintendo's patented chip from the U.S. Patent Office in Washinton. ... In Kyoto, Imanishi [Nintendo General Manger]says it is the Japanese headquarters that pushed for putting the [lockout] chip inside the U.S. bound machines (there is no such chip in Japan)." On a side note, is it legal to import encryption technology into the US? -- # mike \(sun!mae\), M/S 8-04 "Paying more for petroleum is still cheaper than one day of fighting in the Mideast." Henry Kissinger, quoted in "Managing in Turbulent Times" Drucker 1980 X-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-X Another file downloaded from: NIRVANAnet(tm) & the Temple of the Screaming Electron Jeff Hunter 510-935-5845 Rat Head Ratsnatcher 510-524-3649 Burn This Flag Zardoz 408-363-9766 realitycheck Poindexter Fortran 415-567-7043 Lies Unlimited Mick Freen 415-583-4102 Specializing in conversations, obscure information, high explosives, arcane knowledge, political extremism, diversive sexuality, insane speculation, and wild rumours. ALL-TEXT BBS SYSTEMS. Full access for first-time callers. We don't want to know who you are, where you live, or what your phone number is. We are not Big Brother. "Raw Data for Raw Nerves" X-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-X