30755 16-JUL 22:40 Utilities Utilities From: OS9BERT To: ZACKSESSIONS Thanks for the info on where to find DEARC - it should be posted somewhere on Delphi for those of us who don't know where to look! Bert Schneider -*- 30757 16-JUL 23:06 Utilities RE: Utilities (Re: Msg 30755) From: GREGL To: OS9BERT Bert, I just edited the name of the group to "3D GRAPHICS PLOTTER" to fix the typo and added the keywords DEARC and ARCHIVE to it. Hopefully that will make it a little easier to find it again in the future. -- Greg -*- 30790 19-JUL 18:49 Utilities RE: Utilities (Re: Msg 30757) From: OS9BERT To: GREGL Thanks - I tried to compile it last night but had a few errors in it and it would not compile. I need to take a look at the code - perhaps there is an extra space, line, or padded character from the downloading process that I need to get rid of. Bert Schneider -*- End of Thread. -*- 30756 16-JUL 23:02 General Information Eliminator From: COLINMCKAY To: OS9UGVP (NR) Hi, Bruce. Having a few problems with my ST-4096 hard drive, and my Eliminator/WD 1002 system. Specifically, when copying files to the hard drive, various parts of it start to get messed up, as you can see below. The SRC directory has had its info corrupted. After creating the directory structure, the structure is intact. However, once I start copying files to the CMDS directory, this starts to happen. This also affects the commands directory structure, seemingly at random. Directory of /hd User # Last Modified Attributes Sector File Size File Name ------ ------------- ---------- ------ --------- ---------- 0 90/07/16 2234 d-ewrewr 97 360 CMDS 0 90/07/16 2234 d-ewrewr B8 40 DEFS 0 90/07/16 2234 d-ewrewr D9 40 GFX 0 90/07/16 2234 d-ewrewr FA 40 LIB 0 90/07/16 2234 d-ewrewr 11B 40 MSC 6D0D 62/00/13 6599 -se--e-r 13C 65737320 SRC <<<<<<<<<<<<< 0 90/07/16 2234 d-ewrewr 15D 40 SYS 0 90/07/16 2234 d-ewrewr 17E 40 TXT 0 90/07/16 2234 d-ewrewr 19F 40 USR This is the output from DMODE: nam=HD mgr=RBF ddr=WDDisk hpn=07 hpa=FF70 drv=00 stp=0F typ=82 dns=01 cyl=03FF sid=09 vfy=00 sct=0020 t0s=0020 ilv=13 sas=20 wpc=FF ofs=0001 rwc=FFFF Using CYL=$400 results in error 241 Sector Error. Formatting the drive with ECC enabled and doing a physical verify reports no errors. Do you think I have a flaky hard drive, or am I overlooking something obvious? Thanks. Colin McKay. -*- 30758 16-JUL 23:27 Programmers Den RE: Speeding up the coco3 (Re: Msg 30705) From: TIMKOONCE To: NES That simulator of yours sounds interesting. I don't think I've ever heard of an in-circuit-emulator that runs faster than the real thing. For myself, I'm looking at an MM1 sometime. - Tim -*- 30759 16-JUL 23:30 General Information RE: OS9 vs. PCDOS -- gripe bucket (Re: Msg 30726) From: TIMKOONCE To: RAGTIMER Actually, I can see good reason for having one sprite supported, for the mouse cursor. Since updating the mouse cursor is such a common event in all GUI's, it seems reasonable to have some hardware support for it. I agree though, that it's impossible to have enough sprites, so it's better to not try making them available for game stuff. Plus, with modern beefy processors, there's really not much need. I suspect that the newer dedicated video machines don't bother, since they have the raw CPU power to do it manually, and we all know that software is cheaper than hardware to mass-produce! - Tim -*- 30785 19-JUL 01:01 General Information RE: OS9 vs. PCDOS -- gripe bucket (Re: Msg 30759) From: RAGTIMER To: TIMKOONCE (NR) Yeah, to MASS-produce. It's that first one that costs big bucks and slipped schedules (grin?). You're dead right about one sprite for the mouse. But also right that even the Coco doesn't lose much in pushing it around. Actually I think the arcade games do still use a lot of special hardware -- even 68030s can't make wine out of water, let alone walk on the stuff. Also, special chips can be mass-produced failry cheap, maybe for less than the difference between a 68030 and a plain old 68000. Certainly less than a 68040! --mike k -*- End of Thread. -*- 30760 16-JUL 23:31 General Information RE: Groups (Re: Msg 30732) From: TIMKOONCE To: BRIANWHITE (NR) Hmmm... No, I hadn't actually considered "TIMK". Oh, well. Too late now, I guess. - Tim K -*- 30761 16-JUL 23:36 Graphics & Music RE: Who did "VEFIO" ? (Re: Msg 30677) From: TIMKOONCE To: THEFERRET Well, even Kevin Darling admits that Max9 leaves something to be desired. If you're working in a window screen, then it's not at all hard to "roll your own" routines for saving/loading screens. Once you've written one, it's easy to extend it to handle Squashed VEF and MGE formats, which is much harder to do it you use VEFIO. Tell me what exactly you're trying to do (i.e. "load Squashed VEF pictures into a window screen"), and I can give you some pointers. It's really much easier than it seems at first glance. - Tim -*- 30766 17-JUL 02:21 Graphics & Music RE: Who did "VEFIO" ? (Re: Msg 30761) From: THEFERRET To: TIMKOONCE (NR) I need a routine that saves and loades VEF files to the screen it is run on. this is to say, ANY screen (graphic, of course). Phil -*- End of Thread. -*- 30762 16-JUL 23:41 General Information RE: GFX2 & MM/1 (Re: Msg 30680) From: TIMKOONCE To: COLINMCKAY Well, depending on how "big" the GIF pix were, I find 1sec decode times quite reasonable. On my CoCo, I can load some GIF pix in about 10 seconds. Given enough registers (i.e. a 68070), and being able to scrap the dithering routines would give a 2-fold increase right there. Factor in the 5-times faster clock rate, and 1sec sounds about right. Of course, for big pix, I'd expect something a little slower, say, 5 seconds . I can't wait to get hold of one. - Tim -*- 30763 16-JUL 23:54 General Information RE: One Megabyte CoCo-3 !! (Re: Msg 30728) From: TIMKOONCE To: GREGL Well, Greg, CIS is pretty well-connected mail-wise. They're connected indirectly to the Internet, which gives electronic mail access to almost every university and electronics/computer company in the world. If Delphi were connected in such a way, Delphi <-> CIS mail would be easy. Seems to me the fault is Delphi's, not CIS's. - Tim K -*- 30784 19-JUL 00:55 General Information RE: One Megabyte CoCo-3 !! (Re: Msg 30728) From: RAGTIMER To: GREGL Dumb -- it would have stimulated more usage of BOTH services to have them connected for Email. The open-systems approach of early Apple, not the closed approach of early Tandy Coco. Which was more successful, need I ask? -*- End of Thread. -*- 30764 17-JUL 00:02 General Information RE: CP (Re: Msg 30747) From: TIMKOONCE To: KNOT1 Jamie, The "del" command is nothing more or less than a user interface to I$Delete. It does nothing that I$Delete doesn't do. Most of the basic OS9 utilities just call the corresponding system call, and little else. List - I$WritLn Merge - I$Write Del - I$Delete You get the idea. - Tim -*- 30775 18-JUL 01:48 General Information RE: CP (Re: Msg 30764) From: KNOT1 To: TIMKOONCE (NR) Tim, Yea, that's what I figured. Just wanted to be _certain_. -Jamie (KNOT1)- -*- End of Thread. -*- 30765 17-JUL 00:19 General Information RE: [DShell+ 2.1 (Re: Msg 30708) From: TIMKOONCE To: DBEARISTO The biggest changes from the "old" shell to Shell+ that I use are: - Settable prompt. I have my prompt set to include the current directory and window, which makes it much easier to keep track of things. - Shell+ recognizes "cd" to change directories as well as "chd". Since I use Unix a lot, being able to type "cd" either place is a great convenience. - Wildcarding. If you want to delete all the ".c" files in your directory, you can type ":del *.c" rather than "del file1.c file2.c file3.c file4.c". Very convenient at times. - Tim K -*- 30767 17-JUL 17:25 Device Drivers RE: COCO2 WORD PROCESSORS! (Re: Msg 30749) From: TRIX To: GREGL Aw, have a heart. I actually like WordStar. They made a fairly good stab at it with ScreenStar (better than I could've anyway). I guess it's true what they say about everybody's first editor usually being their favorite. I'm still looking for a word processor/text editor that can do columner block operations, but I guess that's something I'll just have to hold my breath for. -John. -*- 30770 17-JUL 20:12 Device Drivers RE: COCO2 WORD PROCESSORS! (Re: Msg 30767) From: GREGL To: TRIX John, I know what you mean. Many people actually do like WordStar and the command set used by it. I personally don't like having to learn all those cryptic commands. When I want to change a word or part of a word from uppercase to lowercase (or vice versa) I select Menu/Utilities/Potpouri and CaseSwitch. Or if I use a particular command often, I can map it to a single keystroke. I like this method because it puts me in control and I can have the keyboard mapped several different ways, depending on what I'm doing. -- Greg -*- End of Thread. -*- 30768 17-JUL 17:27 Patches RE: Dynacalc Patches (Re: Msg 30721) From: TRIX To: OS9BERT Take heart, you're not the ONLY OS-9 people in Colorado. Let's not forget Ron Bihler, the auther of RiBBS! -John. -*- 30791 19-JUL 18:50 Patches RE: Dynacalc Patches (Re: Msg 30768) From: OS9BERT To: TRIX Does he live in Denver? Where does he live!!! -*- 30792 19-JUL 21:44 Patches RE: Dynacalc Patches (Re: Msg 30791) From: TRIX To: OS9BERT (NR) I'm not sure WHERE he lives. I think it's in Aurora but I'm not sure. The # at RiBBS HQ (his BBS) is (303)343-6707. -John. -*- End of Thread. -*- 30769 17-JUL 18:19 Programmers Den Problems with G/P buffers... From: DODGECOLT To: ALL I have been playing with get/put buffers for my editor (Ed), but I have run into a problem- whenever I try to map in/out a buffer larger than 8k, I will get a 'Boundary' (210) error. It led to some very strange crashes until I spotted it, and I can find no other reason for it besides a bug in WindInt. Anyone have any ideas? -Mike -*- 30781 18-JUL 22:17 Programmers Den RE: Problems with G/P buffers... (Re: Msg 30769) From: XLIONX To: DODGECOLT Howdy Mike, In the original Level 2 docs "OS9 Windowing System" page 3-7. Paragraph 2: "OS-9 allocates memory for the GET/PUT buffers in 8K blocks that are then divided into the different GET/PUT buffers. Buffers are divided into buffer groups. ETC....." Sounds like you are at a standoff with the system. Try breaking your blocks up more (???). I don't know, mabey that would work. Mark W. Farrell (PegaSystems) SIGOp ProSIG (Pinball Haven RIBBS (708) 428-8445) XLIONX (DELPHI) mwf@SANDV -*- 30800 20-JUL 19:17 Programmers Den RE: Problems with G/P buffers... (Re: Msg 30781) From: DODGECOLT To: XLIONX (NR) Well, _THAT_ approach didn't work too well either! There are problems when you try bouncing chars around between buffers, and the code gets hairy. I think I will have to go back to the old linked-list approach... At least that will be easier to port to OSK, anyway! -Mike -*- End of Thread. -*- 30771 17-JUL 22:07 General Information Atlanta Cocofest From: DWHILL To: ALL Everyone take note that in several advertisements in the latest RAINBOW, the CORRECT location for the convention is NORTHLAKE Holiday Inn, not Lakewood! (There's a Southlake, too, and that's not right either!) See ya'll there this fall! --Damon -*- 30772 17-JUL 22:55 Patches Level II 'C' Compiler From: SPIKE134 To: ALL Is there a way to use the Level I 'C' Compiler on my Level II OS9? I'am in the process of purchasing the OS9 development system, will this allow me to use the Level I version? -*- 30776 18-JUL 01:49 Patches RE: Level II 'C' Compiler (Re: Msg 30772) From: KNOT1 To: SPIKE134 Brian, I use the Level I 'C' compiler on my Level II system all the time. What drives do you have? Number of floppies/hard drives, and thier descriptors (e.g. "/D0", "/D1", "/H0", ect...). The compiler requires that you have drives called "/D0" and "/D1". -Jamie (KNOT1)- -*- 30779 18-JUL 21:27 Patches RE: Level II 'C' Compiler (Re: Msg 30772) From: DWHILL To: SPIKE134 The C compiler works very well under level II, though there are a couple of patches to change a couple of things for floppy/hard disk operation. I've forgotten myself, it's been a long while, but you should be able to find the related text file in the database, probably under programming. Use the "search" function. Our resident C guru, GREGL, probably knows all this by heart... --Damon -*- End of Thread. -*- 30773 18-JUL 01:44 General Information RE: os9 pascal (Re: Msg 30422) From: GENEDEAL To: XLIONX Mark, Got it! The mystery is to send the desired attributes in hex to the file you wish to open (ex $0202 ). This is not obvious until you do it...then read the manual page. Hindsight=20/20. I can relate to the 'C' situation but because the project I'm working . By the way isn't it possible to use the assembler to compile a machine code program from the pcode? Oh well I don't even have the level 2 asm package. I'll have to add that to my list. Thanks Gene Deal -*- 30778 18-JUL 21:16 General Information RE: os9 pascal (Re: Msg 30773) From: XLIONX To: GENEDEAL (NR) Howdy Gene If you can find a copy of LEVEL-1 os9, the assembler found there works just fine. You use PASCALT to Translate your PCODEF file into an assembly source file. Try some small example programs (ie: Hello World, 1+1*1/1=?, etc...) then examine the source file. This can be quite informative on how os9 pascal does its thing. It is interesting that because of the way Microware C & pascal arrange their register set for a syscall (aka basic09-syscall/C-os9 calls) DIFFERENTLY, you can't use a common library set to support both . Well, good luck as allways and keep hackin' away! Mark W. Farrell (PegaSystems) SIGOp ProSIG (Pinball Haven RIBBS (708) 428-8445) XLIONX (DELPHI) mwf@SANDV -*- 30789 19-JUL 01:37 General Information RE: os9 pascal (Re: Msg 30778) From: RAGTIMER To: XLIONX Say Mark, were you at the Glenside Coco Club meeting last week? There was a lean, trim guy introudced himself as "employed in the video game industry" and running a BBS. Was that you? Would be nice to talk games & pins sometime -- mike knudsen -*- 30794 20-JUL 00:23 General Information RE: os9 pascal (Re: Msg 30789) From: XLIONX To: RAGTIMER (NR) Nope, That was probably Jeff Chapin (Tangerine (DELPHI)). He is the SYSOP for Pinball Haven allong with Tony Padroza (Co-SYSOP). I am just the humble SIGOp for the Programmers SIG we are trying to get going. Hey, that reminds me...I talked to Ed Hathaway about some ideas for Umuse. You probably get enough from others so let me know if you are interested in some "neat" options (my opinion). It would lend some flex to your program when someone asks "Why didn't you make a function to control this MIDI B/W (B/W = Bell or Whistle)". Jeff would LOVE to talk shop with ya. Give us a call! -Mark W. Farrell (PegaSystems) -SIGOp ProSIG (Pinball Haven RIBBS (708) 428-8445) -XLIONX (DELPHI) -mwf@SANDV -*- End of Thread. -*- 30774 18-JUL 01:46 General Information Your 2 minute C lesson for today... From: RICKADAMS To: TIMKIENTZLE (NR) Okay, what's wrong with this statement: #define STUFF "/d0/SYS/WHATEVER/STUFF" Uh huh. It's self-referencing. The compiler blows up with "***STACK OVERFLOW** *". Even though it's in quotes. To fix it, I changed the first STUFF to STUFFDIR. (The text involved has been modified slightly from the original...) Now try this one: #include whatever.h Okay, you need either <> or "" around it. It was supposed to have "". Unfortunately, the compiler doesn't say "You forgot the quotes, stupid." Noooooo. Instead, it gives "Bad code in intermediate file: 75". Probably "75" is a filename derived from the ASCII value of the first character in the ".h" filename, and it croaks when it can't create a file by that name. (Did you know that OS9 complains mightily when asked to create a file whose name begins with a dot or a numeric character? Interesting, no?) I thought you'd find those interesting; I sure did! Each of those cost me about a day's head-scratching... ::grin:: -*- 30777 18-JUL 19:33 General Information lotto's From: FROGLEGS To: ALL I am just interested to know if there is a program on file that calculates lotto numbers. Or is there an easy way to have basic09 compare numbers so that I can write my own program. -*- 30780 18-JUL 22:02 General Information RE: Shell+ (Re: Msg 30746) From: XLIONX To: MIKEHAALAND Me next... While I am nothing but a humble home-brew programer , I do believe that some standards might be set up for the NEAR future. I have noticed more programers going for the extra memory (in several ways). Extra meaning outside the NORMAL "64k" workspace that in reality is "56k" or less. Now, if you can figure out how to break the "Workspace Barrier", then mabey youz guyz could agree on a potiental limit so future Shell+ or Shell? writers could work with YOU (the users/programmers/creators-of-BIG-PROGRAMS) so we (the other-users/mostly-confused/easily-baffeled-software-purchasers) can stop wondering WHY the wonderful program that ran so well at RBFest turns our computers into a sparklie generator. I have written basic09 programs large enough to encounter "The End of Memory" and have had to break them down even farther into more pack'd modules. OSTerm uses this method very well as does Multi-Vue. Pascals can create a program in PCODE that can be up to EIGHT MEGABYTES in size. (Swapcode interpreter) I don't mean to imply that you are not aware of these things but, why push EVERY limit and not expect problems? What happens when Shell+ 3.0 comes out and exceeds 8K all by it's lonesome (ya never know)? Perhaps a better method of memory testing needs be found so crashes can be avoided? (preliminary memory size check) I could be wrong but...when you chain to a new module (ie EX basic09) shouldn't you get the memory from the original Shell back (in that work space)??? Well, I've run out of ideas for now and my four year old is calling. Mike, I look forward to purchasing MVCanvas when my komputer-kitty has more $$$ in it ];->. I hear it's quite the program (I missed any demos at Chicago :-( ). Catch you later, Mark W. Farrell (PegaSystems) SIGOp ProSIG (Pinball Haven RIBBS (708) 428-8445) XLIONX (DELPHI) mwf@SANDV -*- 30786 19-JUL 01:09 General Information RE: Shell+ (Re: Msg 30730) From: RAGTIMER To: BRIANWHITE (NR) You're right, SHell+ can't waste memory that way, and is a big win with COPY, etc. Actually, users should zap the module headers of COPY etc. to use 8K. And if you have 1 Meg, zap it to 40K, which I use a lot anyway. (Been too lazy to zap 'em yet, tho). I wonder if it's only C programs with malloc(), or any program that links in other modules or maps grafix buffers, that gets in trouble with the #31 addition in Shell+. I agree, SHell+ should have an option to switch that on/off. --mike k -*- 30787 19-JUL 01:16 General Information RE: Shell+ (Re: Msg 30746) From: RAGTIMER To: MIKEHAALAND Well, both of us Viking Mikes have a little bias here -- it was OUR application programs that got busted by that new Shell+. But I hope we aren't the last guys to write big applications that use all 64K in special ways, so MORE programs are going to show up that don't appreciate that little 8K "gift". So Shell+ needs to be fixed. And users who care shoudld zap their utility module headers up to 8K (or 40K for COPY). --mike knudsen -*- 30788 19-JUL 01:28 General Information RE: Shell+ (Re: Msg 30780) From: RAGTIMER To: XLIONX I agree in principal the Sell hackers should talk to the heavy programmers. In this case, I think I could have warned them what would happen (I *think* I tried a #8K to Ultimuse-3 once). What happens is kind of subtle: It isn't all the fancy funny things Umuse3 does with subroutine modules and Put/Get buffers that causes trouble. It's this: Umuse3 expects only 5K data memory in its header. All those fancy things demand full 8K blocks so they go into other blocks. But to put a point-n-shoot directory of files on the screen, I have to allocate (malloc()) some temporary memory, about 1.5K. That has to come out of the remaining 3K of the original data block. C's malloc() routine will NOT find memory within the heade.@X6lo,X:-onRJ$]Z$Z+W-l[HQIQUA5Rmount. Since Shell+ pushes that to 8K, there ain't nothin' left for the directory to get allocated. Oops, better disregard the above -- it WAS the subroutine modules that refused to link in uder Shell+. I'll have to think about this one some more. Also try to re-remember what malloc() will & won't do. I may also be confused by the case where someone MERGEd some utilities with Umuse3 and put it over a block boundary.... mike k -*- 30793 20-JUL 00:14 General Information RE: Shell+ (Re: Msg 30788) From: XLIONX To: RAGTIMER (NR) Howdy Mike ];-> I LOVE to kick the hornets nest as much as the next guy but, I "was" working on a game control program for Star Fleet Battles (huge board game) and I needed a program to generate large numbers of ships to test it. I used a double-linked data list method (pointer->previous_ship , pointer->next_ship). To realy test the beastie, I had it do this: while (pointer->next_ship = (struct ship *) malloc(sizeof(struct ship))) pointer->next_ship->previous_ship = this_ship; while the system will give us memory, assign the current ships pointer to the next ship the address of this new block. assign the assign the new block (ship) previous_pointer to point to this ship (double link) When I ran this it reported "generated 215 ships". When I ran "Shipgen #20k" it reported "generated 115 ships". I too have had clashes with malloc and I think I even understand what is going on now (I said "I THINK"). Starkle, starkle little twink - who the heck I am I think! -Mark W. Farrell (PegaSystems) -SIGOp ProSIG (Pinball Haven RIBBS (708) 428-8445) -XLIONX (DELPHI) -mwf@SANDV -*- End of Thread. -*- 30783 18-JUL 23:19 General Information RE: No FORMAT after 1-Meg upgrade! (Re: Msg 30750) From: RADARBUZZ To: MRGOOD (NR) Hugo, Well, I knew I should have not ignored all that stuff about the BLOB that I had read here. I figured since I didn't have it then it wasn't important. Silly me . Oh well, I wonder if you recall just how you rearranged your boot list to get rid of the format problem you had? Did the order of RBF/CC3Disk/dd fix the problem? Anyway, if my new GIME fixes this problem, then the old GIME will be shaking hands with Mr. Hammer ! -Jeff -*- 30795 20-JUL 01:08 General Information SASI Driver From: KSCALES To: ALL To those of you who have downloaded, or are planning to download, my Disto SASI Driver from the New Uploads area: I plan to upload a modified version of the driver this weekend which contains code to prevent the problem some users have encountered if their system is configured to load Grfdrv from the Hard Drive, rather than from the boot floppy. It appears that Level 2 Version 2 OS-9 doesn't support the F$Sleep call when the current active process is the System Process (as it is when loading Grfdrv). Fortunately, this will not impact the driver performance for 99.9% of the normal drive usage. And it means that you should now be able to load everything (including Grfdrv) from the HardtDrive, except for the kernal and OS9Boot. ... /Ken -*- 30796 20-JUL 02:35 Telcom RE: OSTerm autodial (Re: Msg 30696) From: BILLBEISSERT To: KMTHOMPSON (NR) Kelly, I haven't really used Autoterm recently as I have been involved with amateur radio projects, looking for a new (different) house and also been on a short vacation from a heavy work schedule. I remember that I found that 7E1 worked best for me via Telenet as opposed to 8N1 as Delphi states but have never tried 7M1. It might be a good idea for someone to write an article that explains the different settings and resultant *clashes* for people like me who don't know but should. As far as Hayes VS Tandy protocols; I have always used Tandy and have never had problems with it before. If I should continue to *fail* with Tandy protocol I will resort to Hayes but if that fails too then you will be hearing from me for help....BIGTIME! Like I mentioned, I have fallen off the OS9 wagon for a while because I don't have the time but will jump back on as soon as I get a chance. I'll keep your number on file here in the event of an emergency(?) but will contact you via E- Mail first to arrange a time and date. Thanks for the offer and response. 73 --- Bill -*- 30797 20-JUL 08:30 Patches GSHELL+ From: AARONS To: ZACKSESSIONS Help ! I recently downloaded gshell+ with XM and WIZ. I hope you can answer a few questions. 1) There was no Ipatch file to patch the default startup window, I could use MODPATCH, but I don't have the save utility. Can/must I use cobbler? Or is there a utility in the utilities database that I'm over looking. 2) After downloading and after extracting using ar, I get: ar: file not archived or damaged error #001 - unconditional abort Is there something wrong with gshellpat.ar or just ipatch.doc? Or is this normal and everything is OK? Thanks, AARONS -*- 30799 20-JUL 18:08 Patches RE: GSHELL+ (Re: Msg 30797) From: ZACKSESSIONS To: AARONS (NR) First of all, the error you are getting is relatively common, it occurs only after all archive members have been extracted, so no problem, there. To patch the startup window like the docs state how, you can use eithere dEd (a fantastic disk editor) or there is a replacement save command. It is the Utils lib I think, look for SAVE09.BAS. It is a DECB program written by Kevin Darling which you need to download to a DECB formatted disk, run it under DECB, then copy it to an OS9 disk. To do this last copy, you will need either a disk converter program or RSDos (both, also available here for downloading.) Zack -*- End of Thread. -*- 30798 20-JUL 08:31 Utilities Ed From: AARONS To: DODGECOLT On Ed I can't see the cusor. How do I change the colors ? Thanks, AARONS -*- 30801 20-JUL 19:19 Utilities RE: Ed (Re: Msg 30798) From: DODGECOLT To: AARONS (NR) Version 1.6 doesn't directly let you change the colors. I assume you are in B & W, thus your problem with the yellow cursor??? Perhaps if you tell me what you DO see I can figure something out for you... -Mike -*- End of Thread. -*- FORUM>Reply, Add, Read, "?" or Exit>