"c|net central"
TRANSCRIPT
- EPISODE 31 -

Original air date: 10/28/95

HOSTS: RICHARD HART and GINA ST. JOHN


GINA:  Imagine, an international television network that you build 
yourself.  Email: is it communication?

VOICE-OVER FEMALE1:  I love it, it's just real quick and easy.

GINA:  Or is it alienation?  Hi, I'm Gina St. John.  Those stories plus a 
surprise celebrity guest and a trick-or-treat tour of the scariest sites 
on the Internet, when we return on "c|net central."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RICHARD:  In the early days of online audio, in order to hear great 
sound you had to wait for it to download into your computer and 
then play it back later.  But then along came RealAudio and 
StreamWorks audio, and now we just point and click and get almost 
instantaneous sound.  The same people responsible for the 
StreamWorks audio have done the same for video now.  And in a 
wild and crazy demonstration recently, they provided real, live 
pictures and sound to PC users around the world.  One of the people 
who helped make it happen is multimedia producer Mark Scarpa.  
Using Xing technology, let's tune in to Mark in New York.

MARK SCARPA (MULTIMEDIA PRODUCER):  Hey, Richard, how's it 
going and welcome to New York.  Well, we have something unusual 
happening here, and what more could you expect from New Yorkers 
than something unusual?  Check it out:  the third wave of "SimCity," 
which is an interactive CD-ROM game.  Well, today we bring you 
SimTV.  SimTV is a virtual television network. 

VOICE-OVER MALE1:  We connect the entire planet via the Internet.

MARK S.:  Imagine the "Today Show" turned upside down and inside 
out with global availability, not only on your TV but on your PC as 
well.  A show that puts some new, cutting-edge technologies to the 
test, using the Internet to go international.  Are you beginning to get 
the picture?  This marriage of TV and the Internet was put together 
by NHK, the Japanese public TV network.  

VOICE-OVER MARK S.: Got it, no problem.  Do you think we'll get it 
up?

MARK S.:  Using both satellite TV transmission and new software 
from Xing Technology--which enables any home PC user to get pretty 
decent live audio and video--we were able to form a virtual 
cyberspace TV network with remote locations from here in New York 
to Tokyo, to London, to Amsterdam, and just about everywhere in 
between.  People gathered together for a 2-hour, live interactive 
television program.  With all the technological innovations that are 
happening here today, the producers of SimTV3 realize one really 
important thing--that content truly is king.  The whole philosophy 
behind SimTV3 is people's television.

TOSHIO KURMATA (PRODUCER, SimTV3):  When people think about 
interaction, they think it's just a click of the mouse or a button.  But 
we think that it should be much more.  We feel that the viewers 
should create or be able to interact with TV.  Using their Web site on 
the Internet before the broadcast, SimTV3 producers obtained all 
sorts of personal digital information sent in from people all around 
the world.  There are photos and stories of how different people live, 
kids' dreams, great bizarre moments in people's lives, cool opening 
and closing montages, and even a Net beauty contest.  We were 
betting heavily on a New York babe...but the judges saw it another 
way.

VOICE-OVER MALE2:  And the winner on the first Net beauty contest 
is...

MARK S.:  Aww, we got gypped, boo!  Hey, New York didn't win. 
That's terrible.  We got gypped!  Probably the coolest interactive fun 
of SimTV3 was the cyberwarrior, Jeff.  He was this guy wandering 
the streets of downtown Tokyo wired with four digital cell phones, a 
laptop strapped to his back, several digital cameras, a brain wave 
monitor, a mobile weather unit, and, if that wasn't enough for you, he 
even had a Global Positioning Satellite device.  Totally portable, 
completely digital.  Using a Net chat session, a number of us from 
around the world talked back and forth, directing Jeff through the 
city, and he sent us back pictures of his nighttime street adventure.

JESSICA ADELSON (NEW YORK HOST):  I think the chat was really cool.  
The fact is that people are chatting with each other, watching the 
same show--it's global.

MARK S.:  In fact, the whole thing turned out pretty cool and showed 
you could build a virtual international TV network using the Internet 
and Xing's new technology.  Out in California, Richard, you have 
Silicon Valley.  Here in New York, we've obtained this unusual 
nickname of Silicon Alley.  I'm not quite sure, is this the alleyway 
you guys are talking about?  Well, whatever you call us, New York 
City is now experiencing an explosion in the multimedia industry.  
And SimTV3 is just one of the many cool projects that we'll be 
bringing you in the weeks ahead.

RICHARD:  Hey, Mark, thanks.  Right now, StreamWorks video works 
only on Windows machines, but Xing is going to make it available for 
the Macintosh shortly.  If you'd like your very own copy, you can 
download it--for free--from c|net online.  Gina?

GINA:  When "c|net central" continues:

VOICE-OVER PENN:  He is totally and utterly without sight.

GINA:  Magician Penn Jillette and author Clifford Stoll debate the 
pros and cons of email.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RICHARD:  OK, this fellow is Penn JILLETTE, whom many of you know 
as the speaking half of Penn & Teller's prestidigitators.

PENN:  More than half of Penn & Teller.

RICHARD:  I noticed the word "digital" is in prestidigitators.

PENN:  Well, it isn't, really.  It's an entirely different group.  But go 
on.  Go on.

RICHARD:  Well, I'm trying to get to the subject of computers here, 
and I'm asking: early on, you were one of the first people to have a 
bulletin board system.

PENN:  We had a bulletin board in '85 for Penn & Teller called "Mofo 
Knows," and it was very successful.  As a matter of fact, it was so 
successful because we didn't charge money at all.  It was just that 
the phone lines were blocked up all the time, so we finally stopped 
setting up tricks and stuff.

RICHARD:  You're still on the Internet, though?

PENN:  Oh, yeah.  There's a Web page that some independent fans do.  
We send them stuff all the time.  We give them stuff.

RICHARD:  There's this guy named Cliff Stoll who's written a book...

PENN:  Great guy!  Great guy.  A little bit jumpy, a little nervous, a 
little jumpy, a little nervous, but a delightful haircut.

RICHARD:  And also not all that enamored of all this digital 
technology.

PENN:  Well, no, I don't know where he went because, you know, I 
first got a copy of "The Cuckoo's Nest."  I got advance galleys, and 
then I wrote him a fan letter on email, and he said it was the first 
fan letter he got on email.  And then we became friends from that 
first email message, and I guess maybe it was my so-called 
friendship with Cliff that soured him to the whole damn thing.

RICHARD:  I don't know what it is but that email thing just ain't 
working for Cliff anymore.

VOICE-OVER PENN:  I want to hear him yap.  Is that your card, sir, 
with a queen of diamonds?

RICHARD:  One man is a magician.

VOICE-OVER PENN:  Is that your card?

RICHARD:  The other a computer scientist.  Both are involved with 
"snake oil."  Both have written extensively about digital technology 
and, clearly, they're friends.  But on the subject of email, things begin 
to blur.

CLIFFORD STOLL (AUTHOR, "SILICON SNAKE OIL"):  What I'm worried 
about is people advertise email as being, "Oh! revolutionary, and it'll 
change the way our life will work."  I doubt it.  I doubt it.

PENN:  The reason this is a big deal is a lot of us have it.  And when I 
say a lot of us, you know, it is a very elite group--there's no doubt 
about that.  But we do have it, and it's really wonderful, and I just 
think, I bet that Cliff and I--if we ever get a chance to talk face-to-
face, because he won't answer my email--I bet we agree 100 
percent.

RICHARD:  Is electronic mail a revolution in communication or a 
slight of hand?  To the 25 to 40 million email users in this country, it 
can seem like magic.  Messages in the wink of an eye traveling across 
the globe--how is this new medium affecting our messages?

PENN:  I think that when you come right down to it, people like to 
communicate, and I think Marshall McLuhan was wrong.  I don't 
think the "medium is the message." I think the message is the 
message.

FEMALE2:  I prefer email because it's a lot less formal.  It's just real 
quick and easy.

RICHARD:  In a newly released survey, electronic mail is the single 
most popular feature in the online world.  But to Stoll, it is part of a 
media-hyped computer culture that favors electronic communication 
at the expense of face-to-face contact.

CLIFFORD:  The best collaboration happens when you're in the same 
room together.  I mean, you're interviewing me right now.  I can 
literally reach out and touch you, and you can get a sense that, hey, 
this is the way this guy lives, and, oh, he's got some stuff over in the 
corner; he's got this thing--you know who I am from being close to 
me.  How can you possibly get the same sense of who I am by way of 
a keyboard, by way of a computer, by way of email?

RICHARD:  But what if you're on the road a lot?  Say, a traveling 
magician?

PENN:  Well, I have friends that I love, and I go on the road.  And to 
get a message from them daily is wonderful and sustaining and feeds 
my soul.  But it would never replace interpersonal relationships.

FEMALE3:  I have access to all of my friends.  It's the only way I 
communicate with them.

MALE2:  There's a whole new set of rules with email.  I mean, there's 
a whole new etiquette involved that wasn't there previously.

RICHARD:  Those who use email can see that this new etiquette can 
also condone bad grammar and just plain poor writing.

MAIDA STUPSKI (c|net online SUPPORT COORDINATOR):  It's a very 
quick and somewhat lazy way, I think, to communicate.  There seems 
to be this understanding that misspelling, and improper grammar, 
and things like that are sort of OK in email.

RICHARD:  Maida Stupski handles the 400 to 500 pieces of email we 
receive each day at c|net.  She says that on at least one point, email 
critics like Stoll are right: the anonymous and casual nature of email 
can lead to some unsociable behavior.

MAIDA S.:  Swearing, there's a lot more swearing in email.  People sit 
down and they fire off an email, and they don't even think about the 
fact that somebody's reading it on the other end.

MALE3:  If I did not have email for a year, I wouldn't miss it at all.  
I'd rather speak to people personally.

CLIFFORD:  Can our computers and digital instruments do neat 
things?  No, I agree they can.  What I worry about is, what do we 
lose when we link our lives up with these novel devices?

RICHARD:  So, is email leading us toward greater isolation or greater 
interaction? Will historians rank it with Morse code or the 
telephone?  Perhaps they'll see it the way both men do, with a dose 
of skepticism and a sense of magic.

VOICE-OVER PENN: The six of clubs, magic, there, the six of clubs...

RICHARD:  Well, you know, Cliff had some good points.

PENN:  Oh, he sure did.

RICHARD:  Oh, are you still going to use email?

PENN:  I use email all the time.  I don't give a damn at this point.

RICHARD:  That would be great if you and Cliff started 
communicating.

PENN:  We do, well, we do!  We do write email.  We did right it up 
until a year ago, but all of a sudden he doesn't write for a month, and 
he makes up this whole story about how it's email and not me.  I 
used to write him email, and he stops.

RICHARD:  They both had some good points.  Gina, you missed a good 
one.

PENN:  But we didn't hear his points.  And I will throw it to you, Gina.

GINA:  Here's the breaking news from the digital world this past 
week:  Intel Corporation this week announced a new technology to 
link personal computers and TV. Called Intercast, the technology will 
enable broadcasters to send text and pictures to PCs along with a 
standard TV signal.  New electronic cash was introduced to the 
Internet this week by an Amsterdam-based company called DigiCash.  
The DigiCash software creates a new type of currency, which is better 
suited than credit cards for small Internet purchases, like paying 10 
cents to download a news article.  And this Monday, October 30, AOL 
will unveil its new Internet presence, in the form of a revamped 
version of the Global Network Navigator Web site.  The move marks 
a major foray by AOL onto the Net and a recognition that the future 
of online services lies on the Internet.

RICHARD:  Road kill on the Information Superhighway.  Potholes, on-
ramps--by now you think you've heard them all.  But "c|net central" 
has found a guy who really is driving the I-way.  That's right--from 
New York's Silicon Alley to California's Silicon Valley.  Greg Elin has 
just left New York's Silicon Alley on a 3-week cyber-road trip that'll 
take him across the U.S. and end up in California's Silicon Valley.  
Backed by New York online 'zine Total New York and some 
heavyweight tech sponsors, Greg is literally traveling the 
Information Superhighway armed with a wireless modem, computer, 
phone, and digital helmet camera.  His mission?  To check out the 
people and the places that helped put today's Internet online.

GREG ELIN (I-WAY MAN):  I think the real thing is number one, see 
what the Internet really is.  Kind of lay down an Appalachian Trail of 
the people and places that created the Internet. Because we don't 
know what it's going to be 20 years from now, but it would be really 
cool to go back and say, "Oh, this is what we thought was important 
back in 1995."

RICHARD:  In the coming weeks we will continue to follow Greg's I-
way adventure to see how his digital quest turns up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GINA:  Ready for some Halloween fun?  Well, we've got it for you.  
And you don't even have to put on a costume and go door to door 
with your hand out.  It's Halloween on the Internet, where they 
specialize in high-tech tricks and treats.  Has your computer been 
acting a little strange lately?  Creeping shadows across your monitor?  
Boinking noises from your hard drive?  It's Halloween, a celebration 
of the morbid and the macabre.  A time for pranksters, and a time to 
fulfill secret fantasies behind the safety of a mask.  Well, the 
Internet is not immune to this madness.  We begin our journey into 
the dark and quirky side of the World Wide Web with a visit to the 
Grim Rides' home page and a ride in a caravan of hearses.

AMY SHANAFELT (FOUNDER, GRIM RIDES):  I just wanted to talk to 
other people because there's so much to do [with hearses] that you 
really need another hearse person to understand you or to not think 
you're a psychopath.  So we started the Grim Ride, and then we 
hooked with Ryan, and Ryan said, "I'm going to put it on the Web." 
And I said, "Do it!" because it will find us more people. And it has, it 
really has.  It's like Hearse Anonymous, you know.

KEN DAVIS (GRIM RIDES):  I'm just a normal person that just 
happens to own a vehicle that used to haul dead bodies.

GINA:  Have you ever got any grief from somebody who just doesn't 
want to ride in it?

RYAN BENDER (GRIM RIDES):  My grandmother would not sit in the 
car.  Whenever we're creeping around in a hearse, and we happen to 
see another one--we tend to chase them down and try to get them 
join.

GINA:  Wait a minute.  Isn't that a little difficult when there are a 
million cars following them with their lights on?

RYAN B.:  Oh, no!  Not while they're working.

AMY S.:  People either love it, or they hate it; and they wave at me, 
and they flip me off. You know, they do all kinds of things.  But it has 
its drawbacks, you know, 50 gallons to the mile.  Gas mileage.  And 
no parking.

GINA:  In addition to showing their hearses on their Web site, the 
Grim Riders also provide links to other Halloween sites.  There are 
vampire home pages that celebrate the bloodsuckers' image through 
film and television.  There's even a page that tests whether you 
might be a vampire.  There are ghost and haunted house Web sites, 
and, most importantly, there are places to buy masks and costumes 
on the Internet.  The Grim Riders remind me that Halloween is a time 
to shed our public persona and reveal our fantasies.  So, Amy, Queen 
of the Hearses, where are we headed?

AMY S.:  We're going to go to a costume shop.

FEMALE3:  Hi.

GINA:  How're you doing?  Um, Mae West?  No.  Wait a minute--and I 
thought I wouldn't be doing any shopping for Richard Hart!  For me, 
the search for fantasies reveals a tragic Hollywood sex symbol. 
Finally, it was time to meet my public.

RICHARD:  Gina, some people just weren't meant to be blondes.

GINA:  I think it's me and Delta Burke, OK?

RICHARD:  On the other hand, I've seen your Marilyn calendar, and I 
think that'll be a hit next year.  Dave Ross recently went on the 
Internet looking for a treat, and he thinks he got tricked.  And, of 
course, he gets the last word.

DAVE:  Did you know that the Internet is the ultimate way to fight 
back against corporate greed? Yes, sir.  Case in point:  this message 
recently downloaded from the Net... 

(READS FROM COMPUTER SCREEN)

Listen to this story: "My daughter and I had just finished a salad at a 
Neiman Marcus Cafe in Dallas and decided to try the 'Neiman Marcus 
Cookie.' It was so excellent that I asked if they would give me the 
recipe."

Now at this point, says the writer, the waitress gets snappy.  She 
says, "You can have the cookie recipe, but you'll have to pay."  "How 
much?" the man asks. "Two-fifty," she says. "Two-fifty? No problem," 
the guy says, "put the charge on my Visa card." He gets the recipe 
and goes home.

Thirty days later he gets his Visa bill and finds Neiman Marcus has 
charged him $250 for a cookie recipe!

So he decides to get even. He publishes the cookie recipe on the 
Internet so that from now on anybody in the world can get it for 
FREE. Justice through technology.

There's only one problem with this Internet posting...IT AIN'T TRUE!!

I called Neiman Marcus in Dallas. It turns out they would never 
charge your Visa card for a cookie recipe because, number one, they 
give their recipes away free and, number two, THEY DON'T TAKE 
VISA.

This tale, it turns out, has been circulating for years. But, thanks to 
the Internet, Neiman Marcus is now getting calls about it from 
ITALY!

(OUTRAGED)

Am I upset? You BET I'm upset! You know why I'm upset? Because I 
believed it! I thought that I had finally found something naughty on 
the Internet. Instead, it's just another old cookie recipe!

(PICKING UP COOKIE, EATS IT)

And they're not even that great.

I'm Dave Ross, and I get the last word.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RICHARD:  Don't forget, for everything you see on our TV show, 
there's more information available at c|net online.

GINA:  And you have to check out c|net online!  That way you can see 
our "c|net studio cam."  We've actually set up a c|net studio camera 
that overlooks the entire c|net studio, and it's updated every minute-
-so that way you can see what goes on 24 hours a day.

RICHARD:  It's looking at us right now.

GINA: Uh-huh.

RICHARD:  Once again, thanks for tuning in and logging on.
