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We sent a spy into one of our local Handgun Control Inc. clones, that 

operates under the guise of Pennsylvanian's Against Handgun Violence (PAHV). 

 He took notes as evidenced below.  This is how they operate folks.	

====================================================

Undercover Minutes from PAHV (board?) meeting Nov 30, 1994

====================================================

I went to the "Pennsylvanians Against Handgun Violence" meeting last night,

which turned out to be more of a board meeting than an open meeting, at the

law offices of (forgot the name - previously posted) at 1731 Spring Garden 

Street in Philadelphia (across from Phila. Community College.)



I got there a little late, appr 18:20, and was politely greeted by the 

assembled members.  Two more arrived after me.  I was a bit taken back by 

the size, thought it'd be a meeting like that at the Germantown Friends...

I sat down and took notes.  It was very interesting and very informative!!!



Presented below is my notes and recollections.  I have avoided to enter my

views in there.  You make up your own mind.  It is clear that we need to

get to the grass roots and have solutions to things as crime and gun 

accidents.  They speak in churches and such.  They deal with issues such as

how to be a good public speaker, etc.  



Worst of all, they are, like was said of Jon Mirovitz, really nice people, 

except when talking about guns!



They say gun nuts are a bunch of backwards retards that will eventually see 

the light, their light, and little by little will we be converted by 

reasonable infringements...



Being obnoxious and abrasive about Constitutional Rights does not impress

these people - and it does not impress those on the fence either.  They are 

about as reasonable as are the Pro-Life or Act-Up groups - this is a LONG 

TERM agenda and they feel that even PA can be turned around!  



What long term plan do we have, other than to quote the Founding Fathers 

and mouth off at gun shows?  We need emotional appeals, crying children, 

bleeding hearts, NOT cold, hard facts - sad, but true! 



P.S.  I had prepared a bit of a speech to blast them, but felt the mole method

would be better once I got there.  I doubt the info I got would have been

available to me if I'd flown my flags.  Now they think I'm all for their shit!



These people are not assholes!  They are firm in their belief that guns are 

bad and violence will stop only if guns are taken from the people or access 

is severly restricted.  They are rather, wellmeaning but misguided activists 

hellbent on saving us from ourselves.



===========================

Present:

Dan Segal (acted as chair person, and active in the Fumo Commission)

	early 40ish cauc m. working at this law firm.

? 	early 30sh (tall blonde, forgot her name)

Joan	mid 30sh cauc f.

Chris	mid 30sh cauc f.

Carol	late 30sh cauc f. (doctor of some such thing?)

Rachel	50-60sh A-A f.

Audrue	early 40sh A-A f.

Ken	50-60sh cauc m.



Agenda 10/30/94: (as handed out)



Senate-House Committee Legislation Update (see below)



Future Direction of PAHV



PAHV 10-point plan (see below)



Broschure update (see below)



Cultivating speaker skills



Events - past and future

	Oct 26	Anti-Santorum rally video and pix

	Nov 13	Bryn Mawr Presbyterian Church presentation (to push Fumo bill)

	Dec 2	Lehigh-Pocono Committee of Concern (expect major opposition)



Treasurer's report



Next Meeting date



(the agenda was done backwards)

I arrived as the Treasurer's report was wrapped up.





Bylaws:	

	discussions on term limits of officers and such, visa vi the 

	Pittsburg/Allegheny chapter and HCI practices.



Outreach program: 

	how get more people involved, tied into speaker skills and the 

	broschure.

	HCI mailed 18,000 cards in support of the "Fumo" bill

	PAHV mailed 500 letters

	HCI will not at this time share their mailing list

	Vinnie DeMarco, now in Maryland, is to become PA HCI rep and may 

	bring with him their mailing list and PA now is seen as a key state

	by HCI - although the (R) majorities are putting them on the 

	defensive.

	Phil Gramm is putting HCI on defensive.

	NRA has a printing office in PA and full time staff.

	NRA has professional witnesses and people doing nothing but pro-gun

	stuff while HCI has only the core group as staff.

	Richard Aborn wins converts while Sarah Brady pisses people off.



General:

	Talked about Eddie Eagle and STAR programs



	This (gun control) is a long term agenda, 30 years, not 5!

	

	AMA is coming out for gun control, even though their main thrust is

	health care legislation, not gc.  HCI trying to work with AMA.

	"Doctors against guns..."



"Fumo bill:"  (mostly Dan Segal's words)

	Dan Segal sat through the 50 hours of testimony of the commission.

	It is a total rewrite of the PA Uniform Firearms Act - A PHONOMENAL

	BILL - WHAT WE WANT!

	No bans and no child provisions, although the parental responsibility 

	  provisions get that in the back door.

	All committee members agreed upon the bill.

	Fumo defended the 48 hour waing period - has been there 60 years 

	  and it stays!

	Uniform (Phila) CCW provisions were protested by Abraham/Rendell.

	Then Tom Ridge got elected.

	Uniform (Phila) CCW provisions discussed again - KCPR/Jon Mirowitz

	  pushed it - PA "T" sportsmen don't care about Phila CCW.

	  Sportsmen can shoot Bambi if they must...

	Fumo and Heckler got upset at NRA because of discussions on 48h wait.

	The bill never got to the floor.

	Phila St. Rep Harry James pushed Fumo to pass this bill.

	  (James is seen as a major ally by PAHV)

	Tried to attach "Fumo" to wire tap and what else - failed.

	Heckler upset at NRA - friend of Bill Eastburn (the guy shot by 

	Mari Polaski in Doylestown(?) - major antigun fun raiser!	

	Bill will be re-introduced in Jan/Feb - SUPPORTED BY TOM RIDGE!

	Mike Fisher to run for Attorney General next time around.

*	Fumo's #1 issue is now this bill, and he will do

	  ANYTHING to pass it.  It's a matter of personal pride.

	PAHV seen as a moderate gun control group, Gov Casey&Co seen as

	  extremists who wanted to ban everything.

*	Calls and letters are still effective as they are still on top of

	  this issue.

	Heckler says 48hours will be removed on the floor, but HCI wants it.	

	Fumo - Heckler - Harold James keep in touch.

	Criminal and civil liability for selling a gun in an unlawful

	  manner was pushed by Dan - it's good to scare gun retailers into

	  submission.

*	PA FFL's must comply with local laws, zoning, tax, etc, and must

	  prove they are in compliance.

**	(R) wants to pass this too (seen as tough on crime?)

	Itkin's office scrutinized bill with James' office - ok.

	PA "T" worked against this bill (these are the hardcore gun nuts

	  we need to convert).

	Wants politicians to blast NRA and their (R) supporters.

*	Keep pushing in the press:

	  Jill Porter PDN

	  Steve Lopez PI are friendly

	    (expect Lopez to blast Don B. Kates in future column)

	Don B. Kates is a kook - saying that the Methodist Church teaches 

	  submission to violence instead to self-defense (eyes rolling)

	  and is the founder of HCI type ideologies.

	NRA wants a lot of this stuff - mostly technical details.

	Phila CCW stumbling block (eyes rolled)

	Alan Krug the most boring person alive - but can't stand the new

	  NRA leadership, like Tanya Metaksa, but toes party line.

	Jon Mirovitz - only moron on committee - noone took him seriously or

	  listened to hime after a while - nice guy but completely nuts when 

	  it comes to guns.

	Committee body language: Fumo sat with gun nuts to start with but

	  ended up with us... change of heart?

*	What changed Fumo?

	Evolution against illegal gun xfers - all gc activists do not want 

	  to ban all guns - Fumo couldn't face our witnesses - went nuts.

	Richard Aborn shut them all up.  Gun nut witnesses an embarassment.

	Most of all, the dinner at Lavarando(?) with 4-5 people.  David Kopel,

	Bill Christie?, Dan Segal, Chris Craig, who else?

*	Chris Craig is for much more gun control than he lets on...  

*	Fumo owns an Uzi for target practice (snickers)

	Dan and Fumo on close terms...talks every other day...

	St. Rep. Allyson Schwartz supports the bill - noone can get to her - 

	  but Sarah Brady somehow reeled her in.

*	Community groups gets to politicians.

*	St. Rep Tilghman gets no pro-gun mail, hint, hint...



Personal presentations:

	I presented myself - as newcomer and parent against handgun, knife, 

	baseball bat and penis violence - and pushed my Educate Our Kids 

	message: "regardless of how you feel about guns, there are 200 

	million of them out there and the Just Say No approach isn't

	working..."  Blasted visual media for their irresponsible use of guns.

	They wanted video laws & I warned them about 1st Am. problems

	I was offered an activist position - if I had the time...

	

End of meeting.





		PAHV proposed 10 point plan (as written)



1.	Adoption of a five day waiting period, with mandatory background 

	check (similar to the "Brady" bill), with expansion of the list of 

	individuals prohibited from purchasing a weapon.



	[Ed. 3 times DUI in 5 years was mentioned during "Fumo" discussion.]



2.	Establishment of a system of statewide licensing of gun dealers, 

	setting minimum standards for the operation of these businesses.



3.	Require that the sale of all firearms and ammunition (including

	provate sales) be made only through a licensed dealer in order for

	background checks, weapons traces, etc. to be performed.



	[Ed. Auto licenses etc were used as illustration.]



4.	Establishment of a statewide licensing system for handgun and

	ammunition purchasers.  Under this system, prospective handgun

	purchasers would apply for a license (similar to the system for

	obtaining a driver's license), be subject to a background check,

	and would be required to demonstrate a minimum level of competency

	in the safe handling of a firearm.



5.	Enactment of a Child Accident Prevention law, similar to those

	enacted in 13 other states, as well as prohibition of juveniles 

	under age 18 from possessing firearms (except under certain

	circumstances such as hunting and target shooting, and when

	accompanied by an adult).



6.	Adoption of a ban on the sale and possession of semi-automatic

	assault weapons.



7.	Adoption of a ban on "Saturday Night Specials," which are 

	inexpensive, poorly made with no sporting purpose.



8.	Enactment of a provision making it a crime to alter or to possess

	a weapon with altered or obliterated identification marks.



	[Ed. Isn't this already a federal crime?]



9.	Establishment of state-funded violence prevention efforts,

	such as "STAR - Straight Talk About Risks," for use by schools

	and community groups.



	[Ed. The STAR program deals with "violence prevention" as opposed to

	Eddie Eagle's straight talk about guns message.]



10.	Permit law enforcement authorities to seize and weapons possessed

	by an individual who does possess the appropriate license and/or

	carry permit.



	[Ed. "and" should possibly be "any" and "does" should possibly be

	"does not" but who knows with these people?]







Broschure to be folded in three:

_bold face text_ {calligrapgy}



		_{Freedom From Fear:}_



	What you can do to create

	 _Safer Streets_

	 _Safer Schools_

	 _A Safer Pennsylvania_



		PAHV .....



_Since our founding..._



PAHV has worked for reasonable gun control laws.  To this end, we

* Worked for passage of the _Brady Bill_ in 1993 and the gun provisions of 

  the 1994 _Crime Bill_

* Prepresented gun control advocates on the Pennsylvania House-Senate 

  Select Committee to investigate criminal use of assault weapons and other 

  firearms

* Backed the _assault weapons bans_ in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh and 

  defended against legal challenges of the gun lobby

* Promoted candidates who favor common-sense gun laws



_Looking towards the future..._



PAHV will continue

* Working on the state and federal level to regulate the way guns are 

  manufactured and sold and to _legislate responsible gun ownership._  We 

  support handgun licensing and registration, limits on handgun purchases, 

  higher dealer fees, and closer monitoring of gun sellers.

* _Educating the public_ via our newsletter and public discussions about the 

  need for gun control to minimize the effects of violence.  In most 

  instances this can be achieved by regulating the use and availability of 

  firearms rather than through outright bans.

* Implementing the nation's first comprehensive _gun violence prevention 

  program_, "Straight Talk About Risks," in schools throughout Pennsylvania.  

* Distributing a newsletter to inform our membership about gun control 

  legislation  and the voting records of elected officials.



[A graphix box soliciting members, from $20 and up]



_{Help us reduce handgun violence}_



_Pennsylvanians Against Handgun Violence_ is a non-profit, grassroots 

organization working for a safer Pennsylvania.  _PAHV_ members believe that 

sensible laws and education will reduce gun violence.  Join us!



_Gun Violence Facts:_



* In 1991, _38,317 Americans were killed_ with firearms in homicides, 

  suicides and accidents.  (Center for Health Stats, Dept of Defense 

  Almanac)

* _1,100,000 violent crimes_ were committed with guns in 1992.  (Buereau of 

  Justice Statistics)

* In 1991, _1 of every 25 high school students_ carried a gun to school.  

  (Center for Disease Control)

* The _direct medical cost of firearms injuries_ in 1992 totalled 

  approximately $3 billion, lost wages approximately $34 billion.  (Textbook 

  of Penetrating Trauma, Philadelphia)





Do you have a question?  If so, please call us at (610) 896-1950 or fax 

your question to (610) 526-0655





Pennsylvanians Against Handgun Violence

P.O. Box 495

Wynnewood, PA 19096-0495



****************************************************

Howard L. Bloom President PC-MAN, Inc

A full service Computer Consulting Co.

Article Posted without prejudice per U.C.C. 1-207

                                                                 

Join PA-RKBA by sending mail to pa-rkba@netaxs.com.

Pennsylvania's only internet maillist dealing with politics

of firearms and our unalienable right to keep and bear them.

Pennsylvania's Constitution is quite clear about firearms, in

Article 1 Section 21:  "The right of citizens to bear arms in

defense of themselves and the state shall not be questioned."

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