Q: What has been the typical age and typical gender of this 
type of person? 

   Dr.H: I know of this being found in men and women. Most 
of the patients I know with MPD ritual abuse that are being 
treated are women, however. I know of some men being treated 
where we've found this. A while back I was talking to a 
small group of therapists somewhere. I told them about some 
of this. In the middle of talking about some of this all the 
color drained out of one social worker's face and she 
obviously had a reaction and I asked her about and she said, 
"I'm working with a five-year-old boy," and she said, "Just 
in the last few weeks he was saying something about a Dr. 
Green." I went on a little further and I mentioned some of 
these things and she just shook her head again. I said, 
"What's going on?" She said, "He's been spontaneously 
telling me about robots and about Omega." I think you will 
find variations of this and that they've changed it, 
probably every few years and maybe somewhat regionally to 
throw us off in various ways but that certain basics and 
fundamentals will probably be there. I have seen this in 
people up into their forties including people whose parents 
were very, very high in the CIA, other sorts of things like 
that. I've had some that were originally part of the Monarch 
Project which is the name of the government Intelligence 
project.   Question in the back? 

   Q: I'm still not grasping how one starts, how you find 
out how to erase. How do you get that information? 

   Dr.H: I would say, "I want the core, if necessary, using 
the telepathic communication ability you have to read 
minds," because they believe in that kind of stuff, "so I'll 
use it..." I was trained in Ericsonian stuff, "...to obtain 
for me the erasure code of all Omega programs. When you've 
done so, I want the yes-finger to float up." Then I ask them 
to tell it to me. "Are there backups for Omega programs?" 
"Yes." "Okay? How many backups are there?" "Six," they say, 
let's say. It's different numbers. "Is there an erasure code 
for all the backup programs?" "No." "Is there an erasure 
code that combines all the backups into one?" "Yes." "Obtain 
that code for me and when you've go it give me the yes-
signal again." It can move almost that fast in some cases 
where there's not massive resistance.   Question? 

   Q: Yes, can you tell me what you know about the risks to 
the therapist?  [Laughter] 

   Dr.H: You would have to ask. 

   Q: Yeah, I'd like to know that. What kind of data do you 
have given that you've had contact with large numbers of 
people. Not just threats but also any injury, any family 
problems that have arisen. That's one question. A second one 
is are you aware of anybody that you've treated ** or others 
** with this level of dissociation and trauma that have 
recovered? Integrated? Whole and happy? 

   Dr.H: Okay, I have one non-bloodline multiple, complex 
multiple who had this kind of programming where they have a 
lot of access to the patient as neighbors and where the 
doctor, by the way, you'll find physicians heavily involved.  
They've encouraged their own to go to medical school, to 
prescribe drugs to take care of their own, to get access to 
medical technology and be above suspicion.  There have been 
a couple, in fact, in Utah who've been nailed now. We now in 
Utah have two full time ritual-abuse investigators with 
statewide jurisdiction under the Attorney General's Office 
to do nothing but investigate this. [Applause] Okay? In a 
poll done in the State of Utah in January by the major 
newspaper and television station, they found that ninety 
percent of Utahans believe that ritual abuse is genuine and 
real. Not all of them believe it's a frequent occurrence but 
some of that was imparted from two years of work by the 
Governor Commission on Ritual Abuse, interviewing, talking, 
meeting people, gathering data. Now when people say, by the 
way, "There's no evidence. They've never found a body," 
that's baloney. They found a body in Idaho of a child.  
They've had a case last summer that was convicted on first-
degree murder charges, two people that the summer before 
that were arrested where the teenaged girl's finger and head 
were in the refrigerator and they were convicted of first-
degree murder in Detroit. There have been cases and bodies. 
Back to risk.  I know of no therapist who's been harmed. But 
patients inform us that there will come a future time where 
we could be at risk of being assassinated by patients who've 
been programmed to kill at a certain time anyone that 
they've told and any member of their own family who's not 
active. If that would come about is speculative. Who knows 
for sure? Maybe, but I don't think it's entirely without 
risk.   A question in the back? 

 Q: It seems to me that there seems to be some similarity 
between these kinds of programming and those people who 
claim that they've been abducted by spaceships and have had 
themselves physically probed and reprogrammed and all of 
that sort of thing. Since Cape Canaveral is across the 
Florida peninsula from me and I don't think that they've 
reported any spaceships lately, I was just wondering is 
there any sort of relationship between this and that? 

   Dr.H: I'll share my speculation, that comes from others 
really. I've not dealt with any of those people. However, I 
know a therapist that I know and trust and respect who I've 
informed about all this a couple of years ago and has found 
it in a lot of patients and so on, who is firmly of the 
belief that those people are in fact ritual-abuse victims 
who have been programmed with that sort of thing to destroy 
all their credibility. If somebody's coming in and reporting 
abduction by a flying sauce who's going to believe them on 
anything else in the future? Also as a kind of thing that 
can be pointed to and said, "This is as ridiculous as that." 
All I know is that I recently had a consult, a telephone 
consult, with a therapist where I had been instructing her 
about some of this kind of stuff. When we were consulting at 
one point in the fifth or sixth interview she said, "By the 
way, do you know anything about this topic?" I said, "Well, 
not really" and shared with her what I shared with you. I 
said, "If it were me being with this guy..." that she'd been 
seeing for a couple of months, I said, "I would ask inside 
for the core to take control of finger-signals and inquire 
about Alpha, Beta, Delta, Theta." She proceeded to do all 
that, got back to me a week later and said, "Boy, were you 
on target. There is a part inside named Dr. Green. There's 
this kind of programming."   Yes? 

   Q: What's the difference between this kind of program and 
cult-type abuse and Satanic abuse in the kind of cults with 
the candles and the... 

   Dr.H: This type of programming will be done in the cults 
with the candles and all the rest. My impression is this is 
simply done in people where they have great access to them 
or they're bloodline and their parents are in it and they 
can be raised in it from an early age. If they are bloodline 
they are the chosen generation. If not, they're expendable 
and they are expected to die and not get well. There will be 
booby traps in your way if they aren't non-bloodline people 
that when they get well they will kill themselves. I'll tell 
you just a little about that. My belief is that some people 
that have ritual abuse and don't have this have been 
ritually abused but they may be may be part of a non-
mainstream group. The Satanism comes in the overall 
philosophy overriding all of this.  People say, "What's the 
purpose of it?" My best guess is that the purpose of it is 
that they want an army of Manchurian Candidates, ten of 
thousands of mental robots who will do prostitution, do 
child pornography, smuggle drugs, engage in international 
arms smuggling, do snuff films, all sorts of very lucrative 
things and do their bidding and eventually the megalomaniacs 
at the top believe they'll create a Satanic Order that will 
rule the world.   One last question. Then I'll give you 
couple of details and we need to shift gears. 

   Q: You have suggested and implied that at some point at a 
high level of the U.S. Government there was support of this 
kind of thing. I know we're short of time, but could you 
just say a few words about the documentation that may exist 
for that suggestion? 

   Dr.H: There isn't great documentation of it. It comes 
from victims who are imperiled witnesses. The interesting 
thing is how many people have described the same scenario 
and how many people that we have worked with who have had 
relatives in NASA, in the CIA and in the Military, including 
very high-ups in the Military. I can tell you that a friend 
and colleague of mine who has probably the equivalent of 
half the table space on that far side of the room filled 
with boxes with declassified documents from mind-control 
research done in the past which has been able to be 
declassified over a considerable -- couple of decades -- 
period and has read more government documents about mind 
control than anyone else, has a brief that has literally 
been sent in the past week and a half asking for all 
information to be declassified about the Monarch Project for 
us to try to find out more. Now let me just mention 
something about some of the stuff that my experience is in 
several patients now that you may run into late in the 
process. I know I'm throwing a lot at you in a hurry. Some 
of it is completely foreign and some of you may think, 
"Gosh, could any of this be true?" Just, you know, ask. Find 
out in your patients and you may be lucky and there isn't 
any of this. Somewhere at a deep level you may run into some 
things like this. Let me describe to you, if I can find my 
pen, the system in one patient. One patient I had treated 
for quite a while, a non-bloodline person. We had done what 
appeared to be successful work and reached final 
integration. She came back to me early last year and said 
she was symptomatic with some things. I started inquiring. I 
found a part there we'd integrated. The part basically said, 
"There was other stuff that I couldn't tell you about and 
you integrated me and so I had to split off."  I had done 
some inquiring about things like Alpha, Beta as a routine 
part of it and found they were there and I said to this 
part, "Why didn't you tell me about this stuff?" She said, 
"Well, we gave you some hints but they went right over your 
head." Says, "I'm sorry, but we know that you didn't know 
enough to help us but now we know you can." So the stuff 
started coming out. It was interesting.  She described the 
overall system -- if I can remember it now -- as being like 
this. The circle represented harm to the body, a system of 
alters whose primary purpose was to hurt her including 
symptoms like Munchhausen's, self-mutilation, other kinds of 
things. Each of the triangles represented still another 
different system. She said, "With the exception of me," this 
one part, "you dealt with the whole circle with the work 
that we did before but you didn't touch the rest of the 
stuff." Okay. In the middle of all this was still another 
system consisting of the Cabalistic Tree, which some of you 
are aware, looks approximately like this with lines in 
between and so on and so forth. There's a rough 
approximation. That represented another system. Then once we 
got past that she implied that this entire thing was somehow 
encompassed by, what do you call it, an hourglass. I kept 
thinking we were at final integration then I'd find some 
other parts. This person had an eagle-eye husband that was 
watching for certain things that we found to be reliable 
indicators. So often I would get evidence of dissociation 
within a few days. It would suddenly be picked up. You know, 
what we found was I continued to find evidence of 
dissociation and I'd find parts.  Finally this part, as I 
got angry with him and said, "Why when I give these 
ideomotor inquiries am I getting lied to?" This part said, 
"Because you don't understand. You're going to get us all 
killed." We started talking and then she basically said, 
"It's been programed so that if you succeed and think you've 
succeeded, you will fail. They build it in as a way to laugh 
at you, that if you ever get us integrated, we will die."  
Here's what she said, this part said, "I'm one of twelve 
disciples," and I've seen this in others, twelve disciples 
within this hourglass each of whom had to memorize a 
disciple-lesson which were basic Satanic kind of premises, 
philosophies of life like "be good to those who hurt you, 
hate those who are nice to you," on and on and on. There may 
be two or three sentences like that associated with each 
that they had to memorize them. They said, "We are like 
grains of sand falling and when the last grain of sand 
falls, there's Death." I said, "Is Death a part?" "Yes. When 
the last grain of sand falls the Sleeping Giant awakens." 
The Sleeping Giant was Death, who was then to kill them on 
Day-One or Day-Six after awakening unless certain things 
were followed and we did some of those. Well we also found 
Death had a sister as a backup, used with mirrors to create 
the sister part. We had to get past and deal with that too. 
Death had certain things that they said had to be done to 
integrate. I started to say, "Oh, come on, they lied to you 
before." She said, "Wait a minute. This what they said you'd 
say. They said that no doctor would ever believe that they 
had to go these extremes to get us well and that's part of 
the reason they'd fail." I said, "Well, tell me, tell me 
again." She said, "I have to be dressed all in red. I have 
to have Demerol onboard, have taken Demerol. A code has to 
be given and it has to be in a room that's totally dark.  It 
has to happen on Day-One or Day-Six after this part's been 
awakened." I said what I'd have to lose? I had a 
psychiatrist give her a little Demerol. We used the code. My 
office didn't have any windows anyway. It was pretty easy. 
Oh, and there had to be four, I think, candles lit. Well, 
fine. So we did it and everything went well. Maybe it would 
have gone well if we hadn't done it, but I decided not to 
take the chance and to trust the patient maybe. Well, so we 
go on and then we find another part. There's Death And 
Destruction, another backup also with a sister that we had 
to get through. In fact, I think there were two backups 
there. Interestingly, the very last part was an extremely 
nice part, made especially that way so that they wouldn't 
want to lose them because they would be so adorable and so 
loving and so sweet that they wouldn't want to maybe get rid 
of them. Then we found that she continued to have these 
feelings with this last part left now of darkness and 
blackness inside. What did we find? A curtain. She said, 
"They assumed that if you ever got to this point, you 
would," and along the way, by the way, we had encountered 
this stuff about the LSD stuff, the Green Bomb programming. 
The message was that she said, "There is a curtain behind 
which are the remaining feelings and memories, but it can't 
be opened from the middle. It's like a stage curtain. It has 
to opened this way," that it can't be opened. They assumed 
that you would try to deal with all the feelings. That can't 
be opened until you've dealt with that last part and they've 
integrated. So far it looks like we've got integration 
that's holding. So I found Death And Destruction and the 
Hourglass in non-bloodline. "The Tree and the Hourglass," 
this patient informed me, "were made of sand because we were 
meant to die. We're expendable. We're the unchosen 
generation." I've heard variously that it's crystals or 
blood that fills the Hourglass in bloodline people.  By the 
way, you can do real simple things like turn the Hourglass 
on its side so nothing can fall out, so time stands still to 
be able to do certain kinds of work. Spread the grains of 
sand on the seashore so that they can't be numbered and the 
time will not be counted. Got that idea from a ritual-abuse 
victim who had seen some of this kind of programming done 
that another therapist was seeing. So those would be just a 
few other hints about things that may be helpful or 
meaningful. We're talking about very intensive things and at 
deep levels to to me this give us two things. One thing it 
gives to me is hope because it gets to material and it makes 
progress like nothing else we've ever seen with these people 
who have it. The second thing it does for me is it 
demoralizes me, too, because although three years ago I had 
a pretty good idea about the extent and breadth of what 
they'd one to these victims, I had no real appreciation for 
the depth and breadth and intensity of what they'd done.   I 
want to come back to the other question over here now. The 
other question is how many of them can get well? We don't 
know. In most things in the mental health profession we 
accept two-thirds of the patients are going to improve, 
maybe seventy percent. There's very little we can get 
everybody well. I think one of the sad things we have to 
face is that many of these patients will probably never be 
well. My personal belief is that if they are being messed 
with their only hope of getting well is if they can somehow 
get out of contact. Now I know patients who've gone to other 
states and simply had deep-level alters pick up the phone 
and call and said, "This is our new address and phone 
number" so that they could be picked up locally. I mean in 
an inpatient unit for an extended period of time. If they 
are in a Cult from their area and they are still being 
monitored and messed with, my own personal opinion is we 
can't get them well and can't offer more than humanitarian 
caring and supportiveness. Lots of therapists do not like to 
hear that. That's my opinion. I believe that if somehow 
they're lucky enough to be wealthy enough to have 
protection, to have somehow gotten away in some way and we 
can work with them without being messed with, that they have 
a chance to reach some semblance of normality and livability 
with enough intensive work. My own personal belief is I 
don't think anybody with this kind of programming is well in 
this country yet. There are some who are well along the way. 
I've got a couple who are well along in their work and have 
done a tremendous amount, but they're clearly not well yet. 

   Q: Could you speculate on the relationship between this 
stuff and the fantasy games that have been proliferating, 
Dungeons and Dragons and that sort of thing? 

   Dr.H: Well, there are a lot of things out there to cue 
people. You want to see a great movie, interesting movie, to 
cue people? Go see "Trancers II." You can rent it in your 
video shop. Came out last fall. One night in sheer 
desperation for something at the video store, you know? Nine 
o'clock on Friday night.  Everything's gone. I rented a 
couple of movies and one of them is that.  Fascinating. 
They're talking about Green World Order. Yes, "Trancers II." 
And who is the production company? Full Moon Productions. I 
couldn't see much cuing in "Trancers I," but who's the 
production company in "Trancers I"? Alter Productions. There 
are lots of things around that are cuing. There's an 
interesting person in the late sixties who talked about the 
Illuminati. Have any of you ever heard of the Illuminati 
with regard to the Cult? Had a patient bring that up to me 
just about exactly two years ago. We've now had other stuff 
come out from other patients. Appears to be the name of the 
international world leadership. There appear to be 
Illuminatic Counsels in several parts of the world and one 
internationally. The name of the international leadership of 
the Cult supposedly. Is this true? well, I don't know. It's 
interesting we're getting some people who are trying to work 
without cuing who are saying some very similar things. There 
was an old guy in Hollywood in the late sixties who talked 
about the infiltration of Hollywood by the Illuminati. 
Certainly what some patients have said is all of this spook 
stuff, horror stuff, possession and everything else that's 
been popularized in the last twenty years in Hollywood is in 
order to soften up the public so that when a Satanic world 
order takes over, everyone will have been desensitized to so 
many of these things, plus to continually cue lots of people 
out there. is that true? Well, I can't definitely tell you 
that it is. What I can say is I now believe that ritual-
abuse programming is widespread, is systematic, is very 
organized from highly esoteric information which is 
published nowhere, has not been on any book or talk show, 
that we have found all around this country and at least one 
foreign country.   Let's take a couple of quick questions 
and we need to get on to other material. Yes? 

   Q: Do you have any techniques for decreasing your level 
of uncertainty that a patient is or is not being still 
tampered with, "messed with," as you said? 

   Dr.H: Just that I would ask several of the parts I've 
inquired about, Core, Diana, Wisdom, Master Programmer, 
several parts inside I would ask about these sorts of things 
and I will keep asking it. As you do additional work and get 
a bit further, I would ask again to find out. In the back? 

   Q: I wonder if you've heard or you know of the Martin 
Luther Bloodline? 

   Dr.H: The what? 

   Q: Martin Luther Bloodline? 

   Dr.H: I know nothing about Martin Luther Bloodline. I'll 
give you one other quick tip. Ask him about an 
identification code. There's an identification code that 
people have. It will involve their birth date. It may 
involve places where they were programmed and it will 
usually involve a number in there that will be their birth 
order, like zero-two if they were second-born. It will 
usually involve a number that represents the number of 
generations in the Cult, if they are bloodlines. I've seen 
up to twelve now, twelve generations. 

   Q: I have seen a lot of the things you've been describing 
today in several patients. I wanted to ask you a question 
about the Seven Systems. You mentioned something about 
systems here. Are there Seven Systems? 

   Dr.H: There has been that described in some patients, 
yes, the Seven Systems. 

   Q: Could you say what that is or a little diagram? 

   Dr.H: I don't think we know enough to know what it is, 
honestly. I think it may have to do with Seven Cabalistic 
Trees. 

   Q: Have you ever had any evidence where any of these 
people have been tagged and there have been anything of 
their body-parts that might be related to this, private 
parts in particular? 

   Dr.H: Well, there are certainly people that have had 
tattoos, that have had a variety of other kinds of things, 
some of which have been, you know, documented in cases, but 
I mean to say, well, maybe they did that to themselves or 
had it done consciously to really prove something, not that 
occurs to right off the bat.   Let me just take this one 
last question back and we need to go on to other material 
because we're never going to get through it all. I'll just 
ask you to hold your question. 

   Q: It's not a question but I wanted to say for myself, 
personally, and perhaps for others here as well, I wanted to 
thank you very sincerely for taking this time to come 
forward. [Applause] 

   Dr.H: Well, [Applause] 

   Q: Does anyone want to join us for a standing ovation for 
this material? It's wonderful. [Sustained applause] 

   Dr.H: A dear friend who's one of the top people in the 
field, who I know has had death threats, but I know 
struggled for professional credibility in believing in MPD 
and was harshly criticized for even believing in that ten 
and fifteen years ago, and struggled to a point of 
professional credibility. I think in his heart of hearts he 
knows it's true, but he will say things like, "I wouldn't be 
surprised to find tomorrow it was an international 
conspiracy and I wouldn't be surprised to find tomorrow that 
it is an urban myth and rumor." He tries to stay right on 
the fence and the reason is because it's controversial, 
because there is a campaign underway saying these all false 
memories induced by, along with incest and everything else, 
by "Oprah" and by books like "The Courage to Heal" and by 
naive therapists using hypnosis. It's controversial. My 
personal opinion has come to be if they're going to kill me, 
they're going to kill me. There's going to be an awful lot 
of information that's been put away that'll go to 
investigative reporters and multiple investigative agencies, 
if it happens, and an awful lot of people like you , I hope, 
that if I ever have an accident will be pushing for a very 
large-scale investigation. I think we have to stand up as 
some kind of moral conscience at some point and I tried to 
wait until we had gotten enough verification from 
independent places to have some real confidence that this 
was widespread.   I know we've gone like a house afire to 
try to pack as much as I could in for you. I hope it's given 
you some things to think about and some new ideas and I 
appreciate being with you.   [Long sustained applause]


