F I D O N E W S Volume 18, Number 14 02 Apr 2001 +--------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | The newsletter of the |Fido, Fidonet and dog-with-diskette are | | FidoNet community | Registered Trademarks of Tom Jennings | | Copyright through | San Francisco, California, USA | | 2007 | Crash Netmail Attach Articled To: | | _ | fido news@1:2320/38 (1-502-245-6778) | | / \ | for Telnet and Bink: | | /|oo \ | Fidonews@1:2320/100 | | (_| /_) | Filegate.net or 64.38.85.9 | | _`@/_ \ _ | | | | | \ \\ | Editor: Warren Bonner | | | (*) | \ )) | editor@fidonews.org | | |__U__| / \// | wdbonner@pacbell.net | | _//|| _\ / | | | (_/(_|(____/ | | | (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. | | | -- JOSEPH PULITZER | +--------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ Copyright 2001 by Editor Warren D. Bonner for Fidonews Globally. Table of Contents 1. HEADLINE ................................................. 1 =+=+ HEADER +=+= ......................................... 1 2. CHAT WITH THE EDITOR ..................................... 2 + EDITORIAL + ............................................ 2 3. CORRECTIONS .............................................. 6 -=+ Corrected Connection +=- ............................. 6 4. ARTICLES ................................................. 8 5. FRANK'S COLUMN ........................................... 12 6. TRUE STORIES ............................................. 16 -=+ College Life +=- ..................................... 16 7. RECIPES .................................................. 18 -=+ Oenology I +=- ....................................... 18 8. TECHNOTES ................................................ 23 9. POET'S CORNER ............................................ 29 -=+ POET'S KORNER +=- .................................... 29 10. HUMOR ................................................... 31 11. NOTICES ................................................. 33 12. FIDONET BY INTERNET ..................................... 35 13. FIDONEWS INFORMATION .................................... 40 FIDONEWS 18-14 Page 1 2 Apr 2001 ================================================================= HEADLINE ================================================================= "Perhaps the appearance of relative youth is the harbinger of the onset of second childhood" ---Doug Meyers ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 18-14 Page 2 2 Apr 2001 ================================================================= CHAT WITH THE EDITOR ================================================================= --= Good Bye John Boy =-- Today is the last day of the month, the day John pulled the plug on his BBS and the Southern Star, I was informed. Another pillar of Fido gone. First George Peace, and now John of the Star systems. It is sad to see them go. Sorry I don't have George's stats. John's 49, single, no children. He is a Design Engineer (embedded systems, software and digital) by trade. He started the BBS 13 years ago. The system grew and spawned an Internet Service Provider business, which is what he does now. In FidoNet, he has served as NC, Net Hub, NEC, Region Hub, REC, Zonegate, Filebone Coord, Filebone Hub, and Zone Hub. He helped start Net 1:396, Backbone, ERN, Filebone, new FTSC and Z1 Backbone. He has contributed to Fidonet since it was an unweaned puppy, and has many friends in Fido land who are sorry to see him go. John said, "I know that there will be times that I miss it, but it's time for me to move on. You can still reach me at johns@sstar.com". ---------------------------------------------------------------------- By: Warren Bonner From the lips of Andy Brown in behalf of our Western Star... Brenda goes through a lot for Fido net that a lot of people never know about.. All some people do is complain if the mail is not delivered when they think it should be.. Andy --------------------------------------------------------------------- Well folks, that is how it goes in fidoland these days. We struggle to keep the good people who give of their time and resources to make mail and files flow for all others... a kind of voluntary servitude for the benefit of all... which isn't appreciated on the level and with the respect it should be... I know! I lost my feed last Wednesday from Brenda Western Star, when her DSL provider pulled the plug and suddenly was in a quandary as materials were not coming in for the Fidonews all the way to Saturday! Whew! What a relief when I pinged her for the mail this morning and she had it waiting. That is when you suddenly realize that the folks that make fidonet work are to often taken for granted. Everyone should take a moment to send their feed a big smile and a thank you. On another note it is time to enjoy the warmth of spring, moving the cocks ahead to accommodate longer hours to work and play by in the coming months. April fool day is here as you receive this, and I don't have to "fool" you with a fake headline as some would do. ]:-)) Keep your articles coming and I'll try to keep them in the Snooze! FIDONEWS 18-14 Page 3 2 Apr 2001 WWR wdb Ol'wdb ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ----------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rob Ferrara" To: Cc: Subject: Doug Myers Date: Monday, March 26, 2001 3:39 AM Hi Warren, Douglas Myers was file-attaching the Fidonews to me after I left Fidonet. I had them going directly to a folder and I was reading them every couple of weeks. When they stopped coming, I didn't think much of it. I found out a few months ago that there was more to it than I thought. When I resigned as moderator of FN_SYSOP, I asked Douglas to be interim moderator until another election could be held. In one of that echo's best moments, they elected him to the post. The reason for my writing to you is that I'd like to restart the practice of file-attaching the Fidonews to me. Can you find a way to do it? I asked John Souvestre a couple of months ago. He said he would but he hasn't yet. I suspect he forgot. I miss Douglas. My last message from him: --- Start message To: From: Douglas Myers Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 18:54:11 Subject: Upcoming Events RF> Good Luck and Best Wishes for a speedy and full recovery from your upcoming surgery. I'm 43. For whatever reason, I pictured you as being younger than I. I guess you just can't judge a cover by its' book. Doug> I'm 53; perhaps the appearance of relative youth is a harbinger of the onset of second childhood :) I'm pretty confident of the recovery. The doctors don't consider me a big risk. --- End message Publish if you like. FIDONEWS 18-14 Page 4 2 Apr 2001 --- Rob Ferrara Home Page: http://www.crabapplelane.net Work Page: http://www.gm-part.com Fantasy Football Home Page: http://www.crabapplelane.net/ffl/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To: "WARREN BONNER" Subject: Fw: Article Date: Saturday, March 31, 2001 12:30 PM By: Philip Lozier ---------------------------------------------------------------------- * In a message originally to Michiel van der Vlist, Janis Kracht said: >MV> For one thing there is no way to get rid of an editor not performing to satisfaction. Janis> Too bad. You deal with it. If an editor is not performing to your satisfaction, he could still be performing to other people's satisfaction. You can't make everyone happy. The position of Fidonews editor is not supposed to be held by the winner of a popularity contest. Phil> Many editors are on the top of the "I HATE YOU" list, no matter what venue their publication comes out in... A job of the editor is to provide whatever relevant information /they/ see necessary, despite the popular opinion, and to provide /their/ own view of things... I think Warren has tried to be fair... maybe *TOO* fair, and has put up with too much guff... maybe he should start exercising moderator privileges... after all, FIDONEWS is to report the news, not to put up with what he has from the Z2 faction (90+ percent who have nothing useful to contribute other than criticism). If Z2 had something amongst their vast, overpowering, numbers to contribute, I am *SURE* Warren would publish it. Now, just from my HO, I think Warren should "moderate" the topic of Zone, trademarks, and copyright, from this echo, as related to FidoNews... If the Z2's can't handle that, and have nothing to contribute that is of a useful and productive nature, then so be it... let them start their own European version of FidoNews separate from this... What do we lose? NOTHING... just lose critics who never contribute anyway. Phil ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Tony Frew To: Michiel van der Vlist Subject: Copyright --------------------------------------------------------------------- G'day Michiel, 24-Mar-01 10:59:03, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Warren Bonner Subject: Copyright FIDONEWS 18-14 Page 5 2 Apr 2001 Warren>> IF the submission states that it is: "Not for reproduction without the permission of the copyright holder" or "NOT FOR PUBLICATION", and may registered with the USPO as a work of Art, lit. ect., it will not be published without permission. MvdV> If that is the law of your country and you wish to adhere to that you will have a serious problem obtaining contributions from outside the USA jurisdiction. It conflicts with the laws in effect in my country and many others. MvdV> Sorry, to be so adamant about this, but I consider this a very serious matter. Until further notice you are not to publish /any/ of my texts in FidoNews Surely then it's simple. Tony Frew> Don't SEND any text then it CAN'T be published! It seems weird to me that you will send a message in a FidoNews Echo (Publishing domain), then say that you don't want it published. You have just published it yourself. You write into the VERY Echo where Warren gets some of his material from. It's also where I get my copy of the FidoNews magazine as I'm not connected to File echoes as such. I can see that you wouldn't want *your* words changed and then expressed as your opinion. Tony Frew> Anyway. To make my point!!! As I understand it. FidoNet is NOT a democracy. FidoNet has its own rules embodied in P4. EchoMail of course has its own rules laid down by the Moderator of the echo concerned. Each State in the USA has its own rules or Law. Each Country has its OWN rules of Law. As they say, "When in Rome do as the Romans do." FidoNet to my way of thinking is an International Community. The rules we go by here transcend various Country rules or State rules. Think about it!!! If you don't want to abide by rules you have two options... Change the rules or move. Changing the rules is difficult but not impossible. Moving is easy. If you are reading this Warren you have my EXPLICIT permission to publish this in its entirety in FidoNews. Kind regards, Tony Frew Fido : 3:774/605.1 - Internet : tony.frew@xtra.co.nz ~~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~~ ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 18-14 Page 6 2 Apr 2001 ================================================================= CORRECTIONS ================================================================= By: brenda donovan To: all Re: internet stuff ---------------------------------------------------------------------- hello all, Last week NorthPoint Communications closed it's doors and proceeded to dump all it's DSL circuits. Mine went down for good Wed afternoon. A couple of my customers are in this loop also. Fortunately, I had a backup circuit here at home. It's only 144K but it's a Covad circuit. Unfortunately, I'd never got around to testing it. The router and line were bad. Had Covad out here Thursday and they replaced the router. They "fixed" line. Still didn't work. Covad said it was a PacBell problem. PacBell come out yesterday afternoon and did some magic at my MPOE and it's alive. In the meantime, my ISP said to bring my servers over to his office so we could get them back online. Friday morning, I moved 4 critical machines over there. There aren't many ISP's who'd do that for their customers. These guys are super! That got my primary DNS server, my RADIUS server, my 2 FTP servers, my main web site, some small web sites, 6 e-commerce web sites, and a few other things back on the internet. I spent most of Thursday getting the fidonet stuff onto one of those machines. I had to move 200 email mailboxes from one server to another so my customers could get their email. I didn't get alot of sleep but it was worth it. All 4 servers came live just fine. My main mail server and web sites are on a T1 at a colocation site, so the main disruption was to all the things here at home. Today I'll catch up on the file echos and allfix stuff. I concentrated on the mail not the files. Bob Seaborn has about 95 megs of spooled filebone files waiting for my word to send down here for processing. I hope to get them out today sometime. I have the fidonet processing all on a Windows 2000 server and I can log in remotely with Terminal Services Client. There are still a couple of small batch file things to fix... my previous fidonet processing utilized my whole LAN here at home and I had things spread out all over the place. There were a lot of paths to get changed in config files . For the most part, it's all working again. Let me know if there are any glitches. take care... -brenda Editor> Many, many thanks Brenda, for all of your hard work for us FIDONEWS 18-14 Page 7 2 Apr 2001 fido folks. I'm certain I speak for everyone. Fidonews would not get out were it not for your personal endevor for it's existence at times. Ol'wdb ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 18-14 Page 8 2 Apr 2001 ================================================================= ARTICLES ================================================================= ---------------------------------------------------------------------- By: Warren Bonner To: Janis Kracht Re: Succesion rules for the editor ---------------------------------------------------------------------- In her neat sweet way, Janis replied to Michel Spinmaster: [...] MV> Having an independent newspaper is a good idea for the real world where there is competition and where it is the reader who ultimately decides what paper survives and what doesn't. In this case where there is no competition, the cure may be worse than the disease. JK> Well, fidonet is not a business... our participation in it is a hobby. MV> The present one does not have any. JK> That's right.. There have been editors of Fidonews whose style I didn't like.. That didn't mean they should have been replaced just because _I_ didn't like the way they did things. Take care, Janis Warren> Bravo! Would like to have requoted the whole entire message for it's obvious diplomatic persuasion on your part. There are "rednecks" in some parts of our country, and there are "roughnecks" with a twist in some other countries. You talk so nice and logical, I'll just keep quiet and watch... hehe Ol'wdb --- InterMail 2.29k * Origin: Telnet://TheLastStop.osirusoft.com/ 1:103/401 (1:103/401) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Area: FIDONEWS Date: 30 Mar 01 18:21:46 Public From: Tony Frew To: Michiel van der Vlist Subject: Copyright --------------------------------------------------------------------- G'day Michiel, 24-Mar-01 10:59:03, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Warren Bonner Subject: Copyright Warren>> IF the submission states that it is: "Not for reproduction without the permission of the copyright holder" and may registered with the USPO as a work of Art, lit. ect., it will not be published. FIDONEWS 18-14 Page 9 2 Apr 2001 MvdV> If that is the law of your country and you wish to adhere to that you will have a serious problem obtaining contributions from outside the USA jurisdiction. It conflicts with the laws in effect in my country and many others. MvdV> Sorry, to be so adamant about this, but I consider this a very serious matter. Until further notice you are not to publish /any/ of my texts in FidoNews Surely then it's simple. Tony Frew> Don't SEND any text then it CAN'T be published! It seems weird to me that you will send a message in a FidoNews Echo (Publishing domain), then say that you don't want it published. You have just published it yourself. You write into the VERY Echo where Warren gets some of his material from. It's also where I get my copy of the FidoNews magazine as I'm not connected to File echos as such. I can see that you wouldn't want *your* words changed and then expressed as your opinion. Tony Frew> Anyway. To make my point!!! As I understand it. FidoNet is NOT a democracy. FidoNet has its own rules embodied in P4. EchoMail of course has its own rules laid down by the Moderator of the echo concerned. Each State in the USA has its own rules or Law. Each Country has its OWN rules of Law. As they say, "When in Rome do as the Romans do." FidoNet to my way of thinking is an International Community. The rules we go by here transend various Country rules or State rules. Think about it!!! If you don't want to abide by rules you have two options... Change the rules or move. Changing the rules is difficult but not impossible. Moving is easy. If you are reading this Warren you have my EXPLICIT permission to publish this in its entirety in FidoNews. WB> Thanks Tony, permission not necessary, as "Not for publication" was not requested by you. Only your echo mail was quoted. 8^) Kind regards, Tony Frew Fido : 3:774/605.1 - Internet : tony.frew@xtra.co.nz ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Why so few Points in Zone 1? Todd Sullivan <1:3613/1275.12> The question was asked, and it's a valid one. The perspective used here will be that of the average user, who doesn't know much. It's been said by many I've corresponded with in Europe that FIDONEWS 18-14 Page 10 2 Apr 2001 points are more efficient and less costly due to their local telephone costs. To me, that is the real reason why points have been more widely used in that part of the world. The reason pointing never took off in Zone 1 (North America) is that the various phone companies - all various split-offs from Bell Telephone - are publicly owned companies, plus the fact that local calls have been historically cheaper than long-distance, and remain so. Why? Distance. Another reason is that I, who live in Florida, can call California with no problem. The distance is still "in country." I'm sure crossing national borders might have something to do with costs in Europe as well. Another reason would be the fact that mass-pro- duction lowers the costs tremendously. With local costs so low, points weren't seen as necessary. Every one of a BBS' users would dial up and answer their messages on-line. With the larger multiline systems that existed, there was little or no delay getting online, except that the heaviest times of demand. There were mail bundling programs such as QWK and Blue Wave, but no one would use them when they could call, unless their time was limited. In those days, one could spend hours, if one had the access level, and many did, including myself. Another reason was that BBSs weren't all about messages; there were games, files and pictures available. Adding to that the local (to the BBS) areas, no one really saw a need, especially with those multiline/node systems that allowed true interactive messaging locally. Furthermore, in those days the most advanced systems were IBM's PC-AT and 2/386, Commodore's Amiga 2000, the Apple II, TRS-80s. The Clones were just beginning to be seen on the market, and software was just being written for them. Point software at that time was just beginning, and the "big thing" was running a BBS, as it was a prestigious thing to brag about at the computer club, if you belonged to one. Point software became more prevalent when the large phone bills started coming in, and cron programs came out, as well as stand-alone mailers, which - up until then - only sysops and Fido Admins needed. Furthermore, running a BBS was becoming difficult; not everyone had the resources for the "long haul." When messages (mail) became more important, many BBS operatorsbecame Mail Only systemss, and resultantly lost users. People who were still wanting to send and receive mail still used their dial-up access or mail bundlers, but began using point software. The real reason(s) seem to have been the perceived lack of a need for points, and the lateness of starting. When something is cheap, and works, one doesn't see why it needs fixing or improvement. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Todd Sullivan Moderator, WUNDERMENT, AMY_TECH, AMIGASALE ... Choose heaven for climate, hell for society. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ FIDONEWS 18-14 Page 11 2 Apr 2001 ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 18-14 Page 12 2 Apr 2001 ================================================================= FRANK'S COLUMN ================================================================= Thoughts on the Internet versus Fidonet By Frank Vest I'm not a guru of the Internet or of Fidonet, but I've read some of the discussion regarding the subject of Fidonet vs Internet. Here's some random thinking from me. Agree, disagree or whatever. :) Got to thinking, "Where is the power in the Internet"? Really... What gives the Internet it's power. Is it the graphics that it can produce? I don't really think so. Any server program with the right receiving program can "display" graphics. I say "display" because the receiving program is really what does the translation and display. All the server, or sender, does is send the files. The "browser" does all the work of translating those files into something readable. In reality, the Internet doesn't do anything more than Fidonet does in regards to transmitting files. In fact, if you consider that ANSI is sent "on the fly" and translated by the terminal program without using a "cache" of file(s), Fidonet is above the Internet in this regard. Let's look at the above from a different point of view. What makes the Internet work? Well, there's the server which is a computer with files on it. There's the "dial-up networking" which is a terminal program for connecting to the server. There's the browser which gathers the files from the server and translates them into something readable. So; Server = Fidonet software (not the BBS stuff, just the mailer/tosser and such) Dial-up networking = Terminal program Browser = BBS software (if you're only in for mail, Point software) So, the Internet has taken the BBS software and made it available to the User in a form that is easy to setup and called it a browser. They kept the "complicated" server stuff for themselves to sell access to, and, the operating system people (Microsoft, OS/2 and such) put a terminal program into their OS and called it "dial-up networking". Wow!. :-) So, How about the speed? Really? Have you ever hit a slow server? Sometimes, depending on the load, an Internet site can be slower than a BBS at 1200 baud. :) Well, How about the volume? Now we're getting somewhere. The Internet does have a big volume of stuff. I say "Stuff", because I'm not sure I'd call all of the things on the Internet "information". Some things are a little "far fetched" in my book. :) Anyway.... Volume. In reality, there is probably as much volume in Fidonet as is in the Internet. Maybe it isn't there nowadays, but in the "heyday" of Fidonet, when there were some 30,000 Nodes, I'd think that the volume was pretty close. What about the profit/commercial aspects of the Internet? Well... FIDONEWS 18-14 Page 13 2 Apr 2001 you're getting hotter. True, if Fidonet was a commercial venture, it would probably be bigger and more advanced. There would be software authors willing to invest time in the creation of applications for Fidonet and more. Of course, Fidonet is a hobby and limited to what a hobby can put into it, so, lets move on, but keep in mind that before the Internet became the big commercial venture it is today, Fidonet was doing commercial stuff and had many "mega" BBS systems that were commercial in nature. How about the access and connectivity? Bingo!! Now we have it. Access and connectivity! Yup, the Internet has the access and connectivity that Fidonet doesn't.... along with the commercial aspect. Let's think on this a minute. Fidonet is a collection of Nodes/Nets connected via phone numbers that must be dialed each time to connect. The Internet is a collection of Nodes/Nets that are connected on a 24 hours a day, 7 days a week phone network that doesn't have to be dialed each time to connect. So, what does this mean? Simply put, if Fidonet could connect each Node to each other Node via a 24/7 phone line, Fidonet could have the connectivity of the Internet. In a weird thought, "What would happen if the Internet suddenly lost all of it's 24/7 phone lines and had to dial each system for a connect and then hang up after"? Wow! We have Fidonet by another name! :) Really, isn't that the major difference between Fidonet and the Internet? If you remove the 24/7 connection and each ISP had to call the other ISPs to connect for file transfers and such, wouldn't this be the same as each Node in Fidonet having to call the other Node(s) to deliver mail? Now, this is not going anywhere in particular. I am just making observations for the sake of thought. If you were to have the Users of the Internet call their ISP and have to request the "web Page" files of a desired site, or just access what was on that ISP's server, then disconnect and keep checking back to see if the files for that page had been received, wouldn't that be something??? :) The Internet becomes Fidonet and we could beat the pants off of them!! :-)) I wonder how the commercial aspect of the Internet would handle such competition? :-)) In summing this up: The main difference between Fidonet and the Internet is the commercial and connectivity aspect versus the hobby and connectivity aspect. You can put all the "ifs", "ands" and/or "buts" in that you want, it still comes down to commercial versus hobby. Let's keep the hobby and let the Internet have the commercial. I'll enjoy the hobby, try to improve and help it where I can, use the Internet to promote or help where possible and suggest that you do the same. With kind regards, FIDONEWS 18-14 Page 14 2 Apr 2001 Frank http://texoma.net/~flv http://bise.tzo.com/r19 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Fidonet's "Default Web Page" :/ By: Frank Vest One person or group gets the feeling that another group is doing something that shouldn't be done. A discussion starts and escalates into a full battle. As the battle rages, someone makes a suggestion that would end the whole battle and make all sides happy. Problem is, the person with the suggestion isn't in a position to do anything and the people that are in a position to do something are too busy with the battle to look at the suggestion. Or, maybe they just look at it and 1.) can't be bothered at the time 2.) don't want to take time to really think about it 3.) just want to keep the battle going because they like to fight 4.) all of the above. :-( Ok, those of you that fit the above may feel free to keep on fighting. The rest of you that want to move forward, follow this: Where is "fidonet.org"? It is on the Internet, of course! That was a dumb question, right?? Not really. If one does a search on the Internet for the word "Fidonet", one will probably find at least one link to the URL of fidonet.org. Many URLs for Fidonet have a link to this site. So, what's the problem you ask? Honestly, the site is out of date and very sparse in it's offerings. What can be done? Good question. I wish I had the answer for it. As the "Web-Idiot" for Region 19, I've done some playing with ideas for an update, but without some movement from the "key players", it's kinda hard to go anywhere.