F I D O N E W S Volume 18, Number 13 26 Mar 2001 +--------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | The newsletter of the |Fido, Fidonet and dog-with-diskette are | | FidoNet community | Registered Trademarks of Tom Jennings | | Copyright through | San Francisco, California, USA | | 2007 | Crash Netmail Attach Articled To: | | _ | fido news@1:2320/38 (1-502-245-6778) | | / \ | for Telnet and Bink: | | | /|oo \ | Fidonews@1:2320/100 | | (_| /_) | Filegate.net or 64.38.85.9 | | | _`@/_ \ _ | | | | | \ \\ | Editor: Warren Bonner | | | (*) | \ )) | editor@fidonews.org | | |__U__| / \// | wdbonner@pacbell.net | | _//|| _\ / | | | (_/(_|(____/ | | | (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. | | | -- JOSEPH PULITZER | +--------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ Copyright 2001 by Editor Warren D. Bonner for Fidonews Globally. Table of Contents 1. HEADLINE ................................................. 1 =+= Header =+= ........................................... 1 2. CHAT WITH THE EDITOR ..................................... 2 <+< Chat With Editor >+> ................................. 2 3. THOUGHTS ................................................. 4 //+\ THOUGHTS & DREAMS /+\\ .............................. 4 4. LETTERS .................................................. 5 5. ARTICLES ................................................. 9 -+=+ NOBILITY? +=+- ...................................... 9 6. FRANK'S COLUMN ........................................... 14 === FRANK'S COLUMN === ................................... 14 7. CHATTER .................................................. 16 8. RECIPES .................................................. 17 -=+ Special French Onion +=- ............................. 17 9. POET'S CORNER ............................................ 19 <<< POETRY KORNER >>> .................................... 19 10. HUMOR ................................................... 21 //+\ LAUGHS A PLENTY /+\\ ................................ 21 11. ADVERTISE YOUR FREE SERVICE/EVENT ....................... 23 -+-+-+ Ads of some Question +-+-+- ....................... 23 12. ANSWERS OF THE WEEK ..................................... 24 -=+ PHONE Q & A +=- ...................................... 24 13. NOTICES ................................................. 25 14. FIDONET BY INTERNET ..................................... 28 15. FIDONEWS INFORMATION .................................... 33 FIDONEWS 18-13 Page 1 26 Mar 2001 ================================================================= HEADLINE ================================================================= ***From the IC/Z2C:****QUOTE Netmail 3-23-01********************* Please Note Colleagues, R35's segment in zone-2 (Bulgaria) hasn't been updated for 3 years now. As I'm cleaning-out the nodelist I'd like to find out if anyone anywhere has a working link into R35 here which would prompt me to another solution than removing the whole region from the nodelist. Regions may gradually die from lack of nodes but not when they're 90 remaining. Anyone? Please? \x/@rd Dossche 2:292/854 (wd@skynet.be) ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 18-13 Page 2 26 Mar 2001 ================================================================= CHAT WITH THE EDITOR ================================================================= ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (2) Sat 24 Mar 01 10:00a By: Warren Bonner (1:103/401) via 1/23, Interim Fidonews Editor To: Ward Dossche (2:292/854) via 1/2, Europe Gate ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello Ward! Thank you for using Fidonet in your endeavor to wake up lazy nodes to take a little responsibility for their own good. It would really be nice to have notices and other articles from you once in a while, maybe `once a month paragraph' from the IC. I would be happy to create a section in Makenews to create a new "From the IC's Corner", (or what ever caption you choose), to bring our entire world net into a closer relationship where our brotherhood flourish in finding each other's respect rather than nit picking our differences. This submission you send today is an excellent example of reaching out to make the connections necessary to heal rips in the fabric of our beloved Fidonet. We all must work a little harder. Again, thank you very much Ward. Ol'wdb ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This is an important request, thus I listed it in two places in the Snooze this week, to catch the eye of those who rapidly scroll past the Index and Header to the first Column. Please forgive the redundancy. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ *From the International Coordinator > Warren, > > Can something of this nature appear in Fidonews please? I'm > fearing we're losing this region but I'd like to take every > precaution before removing it as it's more or less 90 entries. > > Thank you, > > \x/@rd Dossche > ZC/2 > > ************************* QUOTE ************************* > > Colleagues, > > R35's segment in zone-2 (Bulgaria) hasn't been updated for 3 FIDONEWS 18-13 Page 3 26 Mar 2001 > years now. > > As I'm cleaning-out the nodelist I'd like to find out if anyone > anywhere has > a working link into R35 here which would prompt me to another > solution than > removing the whole region from the nodelist. > > Regions may gradually die from lack of nodes but not when > they're 90 > remaining. > > Anyone? Please? > > \x/@rd Dossche > 2:292/854 (wd@skynet.be) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ By: Thom LaCosta To: Warren Bonner Re: Trademark Issue ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Warren Bonner wrote in a message to Thom LaCosta: WB> Thom, I firmly second the motion! Don't think we will get even a grunt though. Thom> I think the answer, or the lack thereof, will give a crystal-clear indication of the attitude and position of not only the IC, but the ZC group. I honestly believe it's time to put "the rubber on the road" to let the members of FidoNet know how we are being represented, what agendas may be in place, and from that members should have a much clearer indication of the nature of our "governing" body. As the time with no response increases, so does the heartburn level, and good medical practice doesn't embrace sitting by idly whilst the acid builds up. It would appear to me that it's time for a remedy. Thom baltimoremd@baltimoremd.com http://www.tlchost.net/echolist/ --- * Origin: Home of The Other Robot (1:261/1352) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 18-13 Page 4 26 Mar 2001 ================================================================= THOUGHTS ================================================================= From: "R. B. Crowninshield" SOMETHING NICE There are moments in life when you miss someone so much that you just want to pick them from your dreams and hug them. Dream what you want to dream; go where you want to go; be what you want to be, because you have only one life and one chance to do all the things you want to do. May you have enough happiness to make you sweet, enough trials to make you strong, enough sorrow to keep you human, enough hope to make you happy. Always put yourself in others' shoes. If you feel that it hurts you, it probably hurts the other person too. The happiest of people don't necessarily have the best of everything; they just make the most of everything that comes along their way. Happiness lies for those who cry, those who hurt, those who have searched, and those who tried, for only they can appreciate the importance of people who have touched their lives. Love begins with a smile, grows with a kiss and ends with a tear. The brightest future will always be based on a forgotten past, you can't go on well in life until you let go of your past failures and heartaches. When you were born, you were crying and everyone around you was smiling. Live your life so that when you die, you're the one who is smiling and everyone around you is crying. ~~~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~~ ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 18-13 Page 5 26 Mar 2001 ================================================================= LETTERS ================================================================= By: Philip Lozier To: Malcolm Miles --------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello Malcom, [...] PHIL> As to all of this recycled FidoNet vs. Internet stuff... it is not a valid comparison in any way... the old "apples and oranges" thing... the internet and FidoNet are two completely different beasts altogether... FidoNet is merely a messaging network, nothing more, nothing less. It is used either to add content to a BBS, or for personal consumption by private nodes and points... some BBSs have their themes and plenty of information on particular items that interest the SysOps, but again, hat is not FidoNet either... just like the internet and FidoNet, BBSs and FidoNet are two different things, although they work hand in hand with each other. What people need to focus on is not how to compete with the internet, but how to promote FidoNet usage both on and off the internet by what we have available to us. With many FidoNet systems ru shing to get their systems available via telnet, there are likely ways that the BBSs themselves could promote more traffic to themselves... I think that if a large number of the telnet systems would set up to allow telneting from their BBS into other boards, then BBSs could be created on as many topics as you can think of, bringing back the old days of "theme boards"... an indexed listing could be kept on the telnet sites that supply information on various topics, and telnet could become, for all intents and purposes, a BBS web, with the various BBSs being the "websites"... Of course, with the above, many SysOps probably wouldn't want to do that, as the mentality seems to be "I just want them on -MY- BBS, why am I going to let them use me as a portal to someone elses?". Well... for one thing, it would probably improve the quality of BBSs themselves, as the SysOps would have to pay more attention to their content other than echoes and files to keep a user interested, " generic" BBSs just wouldn't cut it... another thing may be that it might be a way to attract totally new BBS users, and ultimately FidoNet posters, in that for some reason, people have always been attracted to something that seems new, or is some kind of "underground"... Even without having the actual systems calling to and from each other, I am sure that someone could come up with a searc engine for telnet sites (search by locality, topic, or whatever), that works exactly the same as any engine on the web, and pages could be created and promoted which contain top of the line telnet clients for download, and much information about telnet itself, that make it easier than ever for a first timer to get involved. A simple telnet list just wouldn't cut it. No, this may not be strictly FidoNet related, but, by getting more people to utilize these telnet BBSs, it does create a way to expose FidoNet to people, and hell, even if the nodelist didn't start to grow rapidly rig ht away, it would sure be nice to see message traffic increase due to BBS callers via telnet... ultimately, it would attract new nodes as more people got involved, and discovered that it really isn't that hard for them to do themselves. I would FIDONEWS 18-13 Page 6 26 Mar 2001 also venture so far as to say that if this was a succesful way of reviving BBSs, that we would likely see much higher quality software being produced for all ends of BBSing. Sure, we would probably see a lot less freeware and cardware, but, that's the way it used to be anyway when BBSs were all the rage. There is enough freeware to get anybody started, but I would sure love to see a higher amount of new and improved stuff coming out, even if it was costing a few bux again. There -IS- a way to revive BBSing, but, it involves people working together towards the goal, and keeping things organized and well maintained, making all of the sites easy to locate, and easy to connect to. It also calls for SysOps to create and provide much richer content for their BBSs... if many of these people can create websites with all that content, why couldn't they do it on their BBS So what it will be just text... it will load faster and likely be easier to navigate... myself, I would love to read information I that thinks it's all high important to load it down with time consuming images and graphics... the BBS caller could simply download own system. I don't think the graphics limitations would be a deterant any more than the web is a deterant to people who like to read novels or books right from the printed page. Some might view using what is available in order to further preserve and promote the hobby that we all love, and put it in a position to be around for a long time to come. We should start coming up with ways to utilize telnet to our full advantage... if what I envision could happen, FidoNet and nets like it would simply be the "newgroups" of the BBS web, and once folks discover it, they will likely apreciate it and like it much better than than those SPAMgroups. What about inter-bbs chatting as well? We can do a lot if everyone would get together and stop trying to figure out how to compete with the internet and would rather work on utilizing what we do have available to us to its full advantage. Of course it could never compete with the web itself, but it sure could boost our traffic a bit. Just another of my penny and a half thoughts that had been brewing around for awhile :) Think about it. Phil ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Richard Webb wrote: Dear editor: Up until 1995 I was active in fidonet, as a node for a little over a year but mostly as a point since 1992 or close to it. After I took my node down I performed sysop duties on another bbs running binkley Maximus, and with some neat little utilities (most of which were created by Harvey Parisien) I was able to do a lot of maintenance chores by remote, even things which normally couldn't be done by logging into Maximus 2.01, such as changing tosser config files. In fact, I was able to set us up an areafix program without ever having to leave my office . FIDONEWS 18-13 Page 7 26 Mar 2001 Like your author of the article on pointing in z2 I often wondered why pointing didn't catch on more here in the states. I could have my mailer poll my boss node, freq files and all those other tasks while I was either out of my office or in bed asleep. I could get the echoes I wanted even if not carried by a bbs in town, no begging for higher access status, no calling multiple boards and sitting in front of my computer being invited to visit the files section or being paged by the user on node 2 that was a kid who was looking for somebody to play Doom with. When I first started bbsing I discovered offline readers and tried playing with Procomm and Telix scripts, but soon after discovered Ppoint by Harvey Parisien. Once I downloaded it and got it running I was hooked. I could have new echomail and netmail available to me, consult emailable search engines through the internet gateway, meet new and interesting friends, all without having to leave my chair. Better yet, I could do this while taking breaks sitting at my desk and not have to worry about whether I was still logged on trying to get the file I wanted or read messages when I should be back at work. Also, my phone line was free for business calls during business hours, and I could enjoy its use during off hours to communicate with friends and family. Just before bedtime, tell my system when to poll my boss and go happily to bed. Next morning with my first cup of coffee I could enjoy lively conversation with people all over the world. In fact, now that I've left the old dog behind for the most part, I still interact with the internet offline. I use an offline reader for internet mail and newsgroups. NO it doesn't do html or binaries well, but that lets me miss out on the nasty viruses that seem to attack Microsoft products. NO fancy java scripts either, but I really don't care. Automated retrieval of usenet and email is there and I can tell it to call in my absence just as I could my mailer. Automated ftp is available with this system as well. Even better, I can run it on my old antiquated 386 with 2 mb ram. ON the other side of the fence: WHen I was a node I was mail-only part of the time, but then I moved to a small town where there were no FIdonet boards. I set up a board to introduce people to FIdonet. Before I'd moved however I'd introduced three people to pointing who normally didn't call bbs systems. Out of those three two switched to local boards, first as qwk reader users then as points, the third called my system about twice a week, though it was a toll call, because he enjoyed having access to the echoes he wanted. THere was a fully functional areafix program so he could link and unlink from the echoes he wanted. He also liked the automated nature of late night file requests. I think the main reason pointing didn't catch on here is that sysops didn't promote it enough. Just my $0.02 worth. REgards, FIDONEWS 18-13 Page 8 26 Mar 2001 Richard WEbb FOrmer Fidonet 1:290/18 and 1:283/520 Also formerly 1:290/8.1 and 1:283.525.5 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 18-13 Page 9 26 Mar 2001 ================================================================= ARTICLES ================================================================= By: Carol Shenkenberger To: Michiel van der Vlist Re: Re: Moderator Rules as repeatedly requested ---------------------------------------------------------------------- *** Quoting Michiel van der Vlist from a message to Janis Kracht *** MvdV> Hello Janis, JK> Sometimes it does appear from your messages that you have a JK> "thing" about Zone 1 participation and the Snooze, MvdV> Ok, maybe it is better to let this out in the open... MvdV> It is not just Z1 and the snooze, I have a thing with some Z1 sysop in general. Many of them are appear to be hostile and insensitive towa members of others cultures. Carol> Michiel, it works both ways. You've said many things that make it look like you do not happen to be sensitive to the needs of those in Z1. When you and they do not agree on something, your responses are pretty much that 'Z1 is doing everything wrong and should look at how Z2 is doing it to see the light'. This is a non-functional way to present an idea. It's especially non-functional if you want people to agree with you. Carol> I recognize english is a second language for you and even allowing for that, your expression is pretty negative about Z1 things that matter to us. Intstead of saying 'hey Warren, thanks for having rules that Z2 expects, now can we discuss one aspect' your stance was 'less than positive'. I could easily have been a positive contribution but you chose to focus on one aspect vice the unusual actions of a moderator accedding to Z2 stance of EP1 requirement for rules, and a first version that was not to your total liking. Carol> I think you mean well, and express it in such a manner, that you are not well heard. MvdV> However when such an area gets linked to the Z1 backbone all hell brea loose. There was ZCC_PUBLIC. An area created by Ward to be read for al and write for *C's. The idea was that it would be a mirror of the ZCC conference for those ZC's not objecting to their messages being copied into it. To inform the sysops of what what is going on in the ZCC coun This worked fine unitil it hit the Z1 backbone. Carol> That echo it the Z1 backbone(s) with no rules and no knowledge that it was other than to 'talk to the ZC's' so of course the sysops posted there. If it was supposed to be 'read only' then it should have been described in such a manner as to indicate that. (It may be now, but when I joined, it was *not* so described). Sometimes a sysop's crystal ball fails... FIDONEWS 18-13 Page 10 26 Mar 2001 MvdV> It got even worse when some Bob (Kohl, I believe, but my memory may be wrong) seized moderatorship of the echo, claiming he e-listed it before Carol> Janis is responsible for the previous Z1EC who was fired 2 years before she came into office? The elist BTW, isnt a Z1 or even a fidonet thing. Z1 just happens to use a text output from it to prevent echoname clashes and figure out who the moderator is if that is undecided. MvdV> a moderator is the one who starts an echo or the one that is appointed by his predecessor or the one that wins a moderator election. Thom Lac list is no more than a local custom from our point of view. Carol> And the fidonews editor position works the same. They appoint their next in line. This last time there was no clear path so the most prolific writer was installed temp, and it seems to have stuck. MvdV> bluntly stampede over other's customs, perhaps even without realising that they are. Carol> Michiel, how many of ours have you stampeded over? Perhaps without even realizing you are? Carol> while the contributors to that publication generally are mainly from Zone 1. No one makes it that way, MvdV> As I have repeatedly trying to explain, some DO make it that way. Carol> In just what way? Note that no one in any other place has expressed a problem in submitting an article other than you. You howeverseem to not understand to crash it to his listed host, hence the Z1C has had to shift our nodelist segment to divert his ZIN number just to make it easy for you. Carol> I sincerely hope that will be enough for you, as your demands are getting tiresome when only very *minor* nodelist reading skills on your part were needed to solve your problem. IE: Crash his nodelisted HOST instead of blindly picking the first adress shown. Carol> One last request. Quit picking on net229. They are doing fine for their members and while you may not like R12's style, it's for R12 sysops to decide how they list. Thatit functions is all you should be concerned with. xxcarol ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ By: Janis Kracht To: Michiel van der Vlist Re: Succesion rules for the editor ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Michiel, FIDONEWS 18-13 Page 11 26 Mar 2001 >JK> What's wrong with it staying that way forever? MV> For one thing there is no way to get rid of an editor not performing to satisfaction. Janis> Too bad. You deal with it. If an editor is not performing to your satisfaction, he could still be performing to other people's satisfaction. You can't make everyone happy. The position of Fidonews editor is not supposed to be held by the winner of a popularity contest. >JK> I can't think of better person to judge who can handle the job's demands better than one who has actually done the job. >MvdV> I beg to differ. This is the old mistake of thinking that when someone is good> X he is also good at related task Y. But it need not be so at all. A good> programmer need not be a good team leader for programmers, JK> No, but I know that a good programmer can identify another good programmer, or a bad one. MV> A good driver need not be a good driving instructor and vice versa. JK> No, but I know that a good driver can recognize another good driver, or a bad one. MV> A good writer need not be a good editor and a good editor need not be good in selecting persons for the task of editor. JK> Just like a good driver CAN tell the difference between a good driver and a bad driver, an Editor CAN tell the difference between a good editor and a bad editor. >JK> The job of Fidonews Editor is not like becoming an NC where a person presents a 'platform' and is elected based on that platform.. It's not like any elected position at all. MV> No, it isn't. But maybe it should. JK> I disagree. You are insinuating that having an election for the position of fidonews editor would mean that the person elected editor will be good, or fair, or indepedent of politics. I don't think so. There is nothing about an election that would make it be so. Having the current Editor select his successor on the other hand, allows him or her to make a judgement about the successor. >JK> How is the way the fidonews editor is selected going to help us to survive, Michiel? MV> I do not know. All I can say is that the quality of life should be considered> as well. Presently that leaves a few things to be desired. JK> If you meant to say that the current method of selecting the Editor (where the FIDONEWS 18-13 Page 12 26 Mar 2001 editor selects his successor) leaves a few things to be desired, well I think that the appointment or election of the editor/moderator would leave a lot more things to be desired. The editor then would be in a position of not wanting to comment on certain things or not wanting to publish certain things for fear of being replaced or removed. Favoritism could also come into play. MV> Maybe it would be a good idea to separate the task of Editor of the snooze and moderator of the fidonews echo. There are conflicts of interest and conflicts of requirements here. An editor should seek conflicting opinions whereas a moderator should dampen any conflicts arising from those differences... JK> There is no conflict of interest that I can see... the moderator of the echo has made a point of stating that the most important rule of the message echo is to "be nice" in replying to posts in the echo. Warren has not said that a person has to "be nice" in writing articles for Fidonews. Look as some of the articles that have been published. JK> Further, the editor DOES seek and publish opinions in the journal Fidonews which may or may not be the same as his own opinion, and Warren, as moderator of the Fidonews message echo DOES dampen personal conflicts in the echo message base. This is really starting to sound like sour grapes to me. >JK> Personally, I see letting the editor select his successor as a way to keep *C's hands off of Fidonews. MV> Having an independent newspaper is a good idea for the real world where there is competition and where it is the reader who ultimately decides what paper survives and what doesn't. In this case where there is no competition, the cur may be worse than the disease. JK> Well, fidonet is not a business... our participation in it is a hobby. MV> The present one does not have any. JK> That's right.. There have been editors of Fidonews whose style I didn't like.. That didn't mean they should have been replaced just because _I_ didn't like the way they did things. Take care, Janis --- BBBS/LiI v4.01 Flag-2 * Origin: Prism bbs (1:2320/38) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Solution to EURO- AMER Lingo....... From: "R. B. Crowninshield" Introducing Euro-English phase-in plan for our Z2-Z6 friends Date: Saturday, March 24, 2001 2:58 PM FIDONEWS 18-13 Page 13 26 Mar 2001 The European Commission has just announced an agreement whereby English will be the official language of the EU rather than German which was the other possibility. As part of the negotiations, Her Majesty's Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a 5 year phase-in plan that would be known as "Euro-English". In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c". Sertainly, this will make the sivil servants jump with joy. The hard "c" will be dropped in favour of the"k". This should klear up konfusion and keyboards kan have 1 less letter. There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year, when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced with "f". This will make words like "fotograf" 20% shorter. In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be ekspekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments will enkorage the removal of double letters, which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of the silent "e"s in the language is disgraseful, and they should go away. By the fourth year, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" with "z" and "w" with "v". During ze fifz year, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou" and similar changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters. After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubl or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi to understand ech ozer. Ze drem vil finali kum tru! And zen ve vil tak over ze USA an tch dem ta spk proply! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 18-13 Page 14 26 Mar 2001 ================================================================= FRANK'S COLUMN ================================================================= by: Frank Vest, Collin County Station (124/6308.1) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thoughts on "Where are we going" By Frank Vest If you read last week's article from me, you might be thinking along some lines of "Where are we going?", "How can I help?". I'm just going to ramble here and let you figure out what you think. :) It's been said that Fidonet need to "move forward", "Get into the next century", "Quit holding onto the old ways" and much more. All of this is directed to help and that's fine. I just wonder what one might call "help"? Help, like many things, depends on the 'point of view of the individual'. What I might call help, you might call me names for. :) So, here's some thoughts and such. The "New Fidonet" First, we get a software author to write some programs for Fidonet. One program will be a "Fidonet Server" program. All it will do is transfer, receive and send files to and from users, other Fidonet Servers and such. Each user can have his/her own account on this server as/if allowed by the System Operator. Next, we get the software author to write a "Fidonet Browser" program. This program will connect to the Fidonet Server via the standard Fidonet protocols (Zmodem, ZedZap and such) and allow the transfer of files to and from the Fidonet Server. The Fidonet Browser will then store and, if/depending on the type of file, display the files to the user on the Fidonet Browser screen. IE: if it's a picture, some file that gives information or a display menu. Of course, there will have to be standards setup in order for competition in "Fidonet Server" and "Fidonet Browser" software so that one author can't just write a proprietary program and "force" it upon all the Fidonet people. and the "Fidonet Browser" software will have to be "User friendly" as well as "point and click" so that the general public can easily use it. Multiple OS support would be another "plus". Also, there would need to be some sort of "game" access so that the people that want to play the games can access them as well. And, there would need to be something like a Point program for the Fidonet echos to be read/replied to off line. Now, just think, with this kind of programing, Fidonet can have most, if not all, of what the Internet offers. Next Step Of course, all the above will not do a lot if there are small servers FIDONEWS 18-13 Page 15 26 Mar 2001 with little in the way of files. So, we need a "Backbone" of file echos and message echos. Well, we have that already, so what do we do with them? Connect them, of course. Remember that Fidonet is a collection of Nodes and Nets just like the Internet. What we don't have are the connections. So, we get a few Nets to get together and sponsor a few 24/7 lines that can connect these servers together. What do we have? Why, the Internet, of course. :) Now, you're probably thinking that this Frank guy has flipped... You may be right, but some of this is possible. The thought of a new type of terminal program that can access files and display them along with the graphics has been done. The real problem has been that the BBS software to do this was written as proprietary software that required a matching terminal program to make it work. A generic set of standards which would spawn a generic group of terminal programs would make things like this possible. Think on this. Set some standards. I really don't care how it is done, just do it. Then BBS software authors can/could build these into their BBS software. The terminal program authors could build terminal programs to match and we are off to "The New Fidonet". It's not impossible, but I really can't see it happening in the current politicking and cut throat method that Fidonet operates in today. We, Fidonet, would have to stop trying to politic each other to the bottom while politicking ourselves to the top and actually allow this to happen. The first step might be to keep the hobby aspect of Fidonet in mind as we go about this hobby we love. It is just a hobby and not a big commercial profit machine. If it is treated as a hobby, there just might be a chance here. Just some thoughts to go with last week; Fidonet is behind the Internet due to our hobby and connectivity aspect. We have the software already developed to use the Internet to connect our hobby together. Note that I said "use the Internet" not "become a part of the Internet". With some work from us on keeping the "hobby" part in our minds and forgetting the politic and cut throat part, we could grow. We are not that much different than the Internet. Regards, Frank Vest http://texoma.net/~flv http://bise.tzo.com/r19 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 18-13 Page 16 26 Mar 2001 ================================================================= CHATTER ================================================================= By: Frank Vest To: Jasen Betts Re: Mailer on a voice line ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On (23 Mar 01) Jasen Betts wrote to Frank Vest, with MvdV quotes. Hello Jasen, >FV> Still a kludge and since a Point isn't in the Nodelist, just a user. JB> Mv>> So? Why MUST the editor be in the nodelist. If he can be reached via a pointnumber that is published in FidoNews and his bossnode is in the nodelist, that serves the purpose doesn't it? FV> Points are not in the Nodelist and are nothing more than users with a mailer. P4 states this. I can't see how a Point can be the editor of a publication that s/he isn't a member of. JB> Nodes, and Points aren't people. they are addresses. I grant that it may be a requirement that the editor has a node address, but I see no reason why the editor can't also have a point address. FV>Agreed. There is also no reason that a *C can't have a Point address, or several Point addresses. But, would you want your *C to be only a Point address? I think not. Regards, Frank http://texoma.net/~flv http://bise.tzo.com/r19 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 18-13 Page 17 26 Mar 2001 ================================================================= RECIPES ================================================================= By: MICHAEL LOO ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MMMMM----- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v8.01 Title: Electronic Gourmet's French Onion Soup Categories: Soups, Appetizers, Cyberealm Yield: 6 servings 1 1/2 lb Yellow Onions, thinly sliced (about 5 cups) 3 tb Butter 1 tb Oil 1 ts Salt 1/4 ts Sugar 3 tb Flour 8 c Boiling Brown Stock 1/2 c Dry White Wine or Vermouth 3 tb Cognac Rounds of Hard Toasted Bread 2 c Swiss Cheese, grated 1) Cook the onions slowly with the butter and oil in a covered saucepan for 15 minutes. 2) Uncover, raise the heat to moderate and stir in the salt and sugar. Cook for 30 to 40 minutes stirring frequently until the onions have turned and even, deep golden brown. 3) Sprinkle in the flour and stir 3 minutes. 4) Off heat, blend in the boiling liquid. Note that instead of brown stock you may use canned beef bouillon (same quantity). Or, and equal part of boiling water plus stock or bouillon. 5) Add the wine and season to taste. Simmer partially covered for 30 to 40 minutes or more, skimming occasionally. Correct Seasoning. 6) Set aside uncovered until ready to serve, then reheat to simmer. 7) Just before serving, stir in the cognac. Pour into french onion soup bowls over the rounds of bread. Cover with cheese. Bake at 350 F until cheese melts. Typed for you by Peggy and Bruce Travers,Cyberealm BBS Watertown NY 315-786-1120 MMMMM * Origin: The NeverEnding BBS/Deltona,FL/407-860-7720/bbs.never (1:3618/555) ~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~~ FIDONEWS 18-13 Page 18 26 Mar 2001 ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 18-13 Page 19 26 Mar 2001 ================================================================= POET'S CORNER ================================================================= From: "R. B. Crowninshield" Since the Pledge of Allegiance and The Lord's Prayer are not allowed in most public schools anymore because the word "God" is mentioned.... a kid in Arizona wrote the attached NEW School prayer. I liked it.... Now I sit me down in school Where praying is against the rule For this great nation under God Finds mention of Him very odd. If Scripture now the class recites, It violates the Bill of Rights. And anytime my head I bow Becomes a Federal matter now. Our hair can be purple, orange or green, That's no offense; it's a freedom scene. The law is specific, the law is precise. Prayers spoken aloud are a serious vice. For praying in a public hall Might offend someone with no faith at all. In silence alone we must meditate, God's name is prohibited by the state. We're allowed to cuss and dress like freaks, And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks. They've outlawed guns, but FIRST the Bible. To quote the Good Book makes me liable. We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen, And the 'unwed daddy,' our Senior King It's "inappropriate" to teach right from wrong, We're taught that such "judgments" do not belong. We can get our condoms and birth controls, Study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles. But the Ten Commandments are not allowed, No word of God must reach this crowd. It's scary here I must confess, When chaos reigns the school's a mess. So, Lord, this silent plea I make: Should I be shot; my soul please take! Amen If you aren't ashamed to do this, please pass this on. Jesus said, "If you are ashamed of me," I will be ashamed of you before my Father." FIDONEWS 18-13 Page 20 26 Mar 2001 Not ashamed. Passing this on . . . ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 18-13 Page 21 26 Mar 2001 ================================================================= HUMOR ================================================================= From: "R. B. Crowninshield" Three girls all worked in the same office with the same female boss. Each day, they noticed the boss left work early. One day, the girls decided that, when the boss left, they would leave right behind her. After all, she never called or came back to work, so how would she know they went home early? The brunette was thrilled to be home early. She did a little gardening, spent playtime with her son, and went to bed early. The redhead was elated to be able to get in a quick workout at the spa before meeting a dinner date. The blonde was happy to get home early and surprise her husband, but when she got to her bedroom, she heard a muffled noise from inside. Slowly and quietly, she cracked open the door and was mortified to see her husband in bed with her boss! Gently, she closed the door and crept out of her house. The next day, at their coffee break, the brunette and redhead planned to leave early again, and they asked the blonde if she was going to go with them. "No way," the blonde exclaimed. "I almost got caught yesterday!" /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ My sister brought her daughter a really nice Spinet Piano for her birthday. A few weeks later, I asked my sister how her daughter was doing. "Oh," she said, "I persuaded her to switch to a clarinet." "How come?" I asked. "Well," my sister answered, "because with a clarinet, she can't sing...." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ FIDONEWS 18-13 Page 22 26 Mar 2001 ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 18-13 Page 23 26 Mar 2001 ================================================================= ADVERTISE YOUR FREE SERVICE/EVENT ================================================================= Newspaper Classified Ads: Lost: small apricot poodle. Reward. Neutered. Like one of the family. For sale: an antique desk suitable for lady with thick legs and large drawers. Wanted: Unmarried girls to pick fresh fruit and produce at night. Tired of cleaning yourself? Let me do it. Stock up and save. Limit: one. Wanted: Part-time married girls for soda fountain in sandwich shop. Man wanted to work in dynamite factory. Must be willing to travel. Wanted. Man to take care of cow that does not smoke or drink. Illiterate? Write today for free help. ~~~~~~~~~~s~m~i~l~e~~~~~~~~~~ ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 18-13 Page 24 26 Mar 2001 ================================================================= ANSWERS OF THE WEEK ================================================================= ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Quoting Michiel van der Vlist from a message to Carol Shenkenberger * -=+ PHONE Q & A +=- To: Carol Shenkenberger Re: PABX for the home??? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MvdV> Hello Carol, 1) How are they going to find out? From their point view if view it looks just like a single analog phone. Carol> It has to do more with compliance with the rules of service for the phone line here on `noncommercial rates'. MvdV> Do the rules of servive forbid the connection of a small home exchange for private use? Carol> I called and asked my phone company. They almost changed me to commercial rates just based on *asking*. (I talked then out of it as I finally got someone with a brain on the line and explained I was asking *if it would* make for that, not that I was *doing* it)... Lets say with my local phone company, definate YES. xxcarol * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS Norfolk VA 757-486-3057 28.8 Dual (1:275/100) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 18-13 Page 25 26 Mar 2001 ================================================================= NOTICES ================================================================= ---------------------------------------------------------------------- After considerable word and rewording to shorten this file, here 'tiz! My personal feeling that "be nice" should have been sufficient. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the International Fidonews Echo. These rules all add up to "Be Nice". Revision #1.2: *** Paragraphs #11 thru #15 *** -1- Fidonews conference is for all persons interested in the Fido family, bring their questions, answers and ideas for the future development of Fidonet in all Zones. The fidonet is dedicated to the enjoyment of all seeking a hobby to communicate and assist in the movement of echo and netmails. Fidonews develops the topics posted in its echo so that a global issue weekly may reach the thousands that are not connected to the Fidonews echo per se. -2- The International Fidonews Echo may be gated to all Zones, Regions and nets without asking the moderator's permission. The editor/moderator and Fido-Robot is in your nodelist AND in the Banner of the Fidonews. The editor of Fidonews is the holder of the copyright of each issue. To send an article CRASH netmail FILE ATTACHED, address message to: Fido News@1:2320/38 (1-502-245-6778) Use Fido News@1:2320/100 (filegate.net or 64.38.85.9) for telnet and binkp, or normal BBS log in. To log on to < Region 16: Region 17: http://www.region17.net Net 140: http://www.nwstar.com/~net140 Region 18: http://techshop.pdn.net/fido/ Region 19: http://bise.tzo.com/r19 Net 124: http://www.dallasinet.com/net124 http://texoma.net/~flv Net 130: http://www.startext.net/homes/net130 Net 393: http://www.chatter.com/~wb/ Zone 2: http://www.z2.fidonet.org Region 20: http://www.fidonet.pp.se (in Swedish) Region 23: http://www.fido.dk (in Danish) Region 24: http://www.swb.de/personal/flop/gatebau.html (German) http://www.was-ist-fido.de/ Fido-IP: http://home.nrh.de/fido/ (English/German) Region 25: http://www.literary.freeserve.co.uk/net2502/ Region 26: http://www.nemesis.ie FIDONEWS 18-13 Page 29 26 Mar 2001 REC 26: http://www.nrgsys.com/orb Region 27: http://telematique.org/ft/r27.htm Region 29: http://www.rtfm.be/fidonet/ (French) http://Welcome.to/skynetbbs/ Region 30: http://www.fidonet.ch (German) ? Region 33: http://www.fidoitalia.net (Italian) Region 34: http://www.pobox.com/cnb/r34.htm (Spanish) REC34: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/4552/ Region 36: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/7207/ Region 38: http://public.st.carnet.hr/~blagi/bbs/adriam.html Region 41: http://www.fidonet.gr (Greek/English) Region 42: http://www.fido.cz ! Net422: http://www.fido.sk (Slovak/English) Region 50: http://www.fido7.com/ (Russian) Net 5010: http://fido.tu-chel.ac.ru/ (Russian) Net 5015: http://www.fido.nnov.ru/ (Russian) Net 5028: HTTP://5028.nordnet.ru/ Net 5030: http://kenga.ru/fido/ (Russian & English) Net 5049: http://www.n5049.z2.fidonet.org (English/Russian) Net 5074: http://www.z2.n5074.fidonet.net ?? Net 5085: http://www.fidonet.uz/ (Russian) Zone 3: http://www.z3.fidonet.org Zone 4: Region 80: http://fidobrasil.8m.com (Portuguese) Region 90: Net 904: http://members.tripod.com/~net904 (Spanish) Zone 5: http://www.eastcape.co.za/fidonet/ Zone 6: http://www.z6.fidonet.org Region 65: http://www.cfido.com/fidonet/cfidochina.html (Chinese) Fidonet Via Internet Hubs See also: http://www.osirusoft.com/fidoip.html a @ preceding an individual's name implies a virtual email address. The email is translated as follows firstlast@osirusoft.com will automatically route to the appropriate individual's email. Anyone in this list will also receive routed notice of this feature. In my case, it would still be joejared@osirusoft.com, but you get the idea. Also, as information is provided to me, I will be adding a latency field to each node, which is defined as the maximum time between when the message is received, and when it is sent on to other nodes, or available to be sent onward, defined in minutes. A latency of ! implies that there is an immediate response, and an attempt to deliver immediately after processing, or a "MinuteMail System", as it were. v-email flag firstnamelastname@osirusoft.com FIDONEWS 18-13 Page 30 26 Mar 2001 | email address or Node# | Operator | Facilities (*) | Speed,| Basic Rate | | |latency| -----------+-------------------+----------------+-------+------------ Zone 1 | | | | 10/3 | Brenda Donovan | FTP,UUE,BinkP | 384K,30| n/c 10/345 @ Todd Cochrane | FTP,BinkP,VMOT | T1,! | n/c 13/25 @ Jim Balcom | FTP | 56k | $20mo. 18/500 @ Ross Cassell | FTP, BinkP |128K+,!| n/c 103/5 @ Mark Luetger | BinkP | 384k,!| n/c 103/153 @ Michael Box | BinkP | aDSL,!| n/c 103/301 @ Joe Jared | BinkP,FTP,NFS | 384k,!| n/c 103/401 @ Warren Bonner | BinkP | aDSL,!| n/c 105/8 | Russ Johnson | FTP,BinkP,VMoT | 384k | n/c 105/72 @ Larry James | FTP, BinkP | aDSL | $50/yr 106/1 @ Steve Loupe | BinkP, FTP | 128k | ??? 106/6018 | Lawrence Garvin | FTP, VMoT | aDSL,60| n/c 107/453 @ Jeffrey Estevez| FTP,BinkP,VMoT,UUE| 56k,60| $10 mo. 140/1 @ Bob Seaborn | FTP,BinkP | T3,30 | $5/$16 167/133 | Stephen Monteith | BinkP | 128k+ | n/c 211/417 @ Korombos | BinkP,UUE,FTP | T1 | n/c 220/10 | groberts@nexusbbs.net |BinkP,FTP,UUE|1.5M+ | n/c 218/109 @ Matt Munson | BinkP,UUE | 33.6k | n/c 246/160 @ Mason Vye | FTP, UUE | 56K | n/c 249/116 | Carl Austin Bennett | FTP, UUE |ADSL,60 | n/c 280/169 | Brian Greenstreet | FTP | 33.6 | $2mo. 342/3 @ Richard Dodsworth | BinkP,FTP | 128K+ | n/c 395/670 | Arthur Stark | BinkD,FTP | CABLE | n/c 379/1 @ Dale Ross | FTP, BinkP,UUE | 256K+,! n/c 396/45 | Marc Lewis | UUE | 33.6 | $26/yr 396/48 | Ben Ritchey | UUE:BFDS | 33.6k | n/c 2604/104 @ Jim Mclaughlin | FTP,VMoT,UUE | 33.6 | $1mo 2613/404 @ David Moufarrege | BinkP,FTP,VMoT | 128k+,!| n/c 2624/306 | David Calafrancesco | VMoT | 33.6 | n/c 3407/4 @ jyates@bsdi.ldl.net | UUE,FTP | 28.8 | n/c 3632/84 | Robert Todd |FTP,VMoT,UUE,BinkP | 57.6k | n/c 3651/9 @ Jerry Gause | FTP,VMoT | 33.6 | $3/$6 -------------------------------------------------------------- Zone 2 | 20/11 | Henrik Lindhe | BinkP | ??? | n/c 31/1 | Gabriel Plutzar | BinkP | T1+ | n/c 203/600 | Mikael Karlsson | UUE | 64k | n/c 221/360 @ Tommi Koivula | BinkP,UUE | ??? | n/c 236/205 @ Michael Kaaber | BinkP | ??? | n/c 246/2098 | Volker Imre | BinkP | ??? | n/c 280/1601 @ Jeroen VanDeLeur | FTP,UUE | 64k | n/c 292/620 | Eddy Missoul | VMoT, UUE,BinkP| 64k |N/C 292/624 | Steven Leeman | UUE | 64k | N/C 292/907 | Bart Verhaeghe | BinkP,VMoT,UUE | 64K | n/c 292/2003 | Eric Vaneberck | BinkP | 768k | n/c 301/1 | Peter Witschi | BinkP | 768k | n/c 332/807 | Roberto Mascolo | BinkP | ??? | n/c 335/535 @ Mario Mure | BinkP,VMot,UUE | 64k | n/c 335/610 | Gino Lucrezi | UUE | 33.6 | n/c 344/201 | Julio Garcia | BinkP | ??? | n/c 346/3 @ Carlos Navarro | UUE | ??? | n/c FIDONEWS 18-13 Page 31 26 Mar 2001 382/100 | Sinisa Burina | BinkP,ifcico | ??? | n/c 406/555 | Ofir Michaeli & | BinkP | ??? | n/c 406/555 | Marius Kaizerman | BinkP | ??? | n/c 423/81 | Milos Bajer | BinkP | ??? | n/c 465/204 | Va Milushnikov | BinkP | 33.6k | n/c 469/84 | Max Masyutin | VMoT | 256k | n/c 480/112 | Adam Sarapata| FTP, VMoT, UUE,BinkP| 128k | n/c 550/4077 | Serguei Trouchelle| UUE | ----- | n/c 2411/413 @ Dennis Dittrich | UUE,BinkP | 64k | n/c 2446/301 @ Lothar Behet | BinkP,VMoT,UUE,FTP | 64K | n/c 2474/275 | Christian Emig | UUE | 64k | unkn 5030/115 | Andrey Podkolzin | BinkP | ??? | n/c 5100/8 | Egons Bush | BinkP | ??? | n/c 5020/1159 | Gennady Kudryashoff | UUE | 33.6 | n/c -------------------------------------------------------------- Zone 3 633/260 @ Malcolm Miles | FTP,BinkP | 64K | n/c 640/954 | Rick Van Ruth | FTP,VMot,UUE,BinkP| 56K| n/c 774/605 @ Barry Blackford|BinkP,VMoT:10023,ifcico,FTP |33.6| n/c -------------------------------------------------------------- Zone 4 801/161 @ Renato Zambon | UUE | 33.6 |n/c 905/100 | Fabian Gervan | VMoT,UUE,BinkP | 128k | n/c 902/18 | Javier Tejedor | UUE | 33,6 | n/c -- * FTP = Internet File Transfer Protocol * VMoT = Virtual Mailer over Telnet (various) * UUE = uuencode<->email type transfers * BinkP = front end mailer for TCPIP networks * NFS = Linux Networking ---------------------------------------------- Fidonet oriented news servers news.osirusoft.com news.tardis.net Fidonet oriented chat rooms. room #fidonet 5PM (PDT 11AM GMT) Sundays irc.osirusoft.com (Peers wanted) ---------------------------------------------- Please send updates, corrections and suggestions to Joe Jared, 1:103/301, joejared@osirusoft.com. All email addresses here for purpose of corresponding with fidonet members about obtaining a feed. Improper use of the virtual email addresses, and most especially, email addressed to blockme@relays.osirusoft.com will be considered a request to be blocked by my open relay spam stopper at http://relays.osirusoft.com FIDONEWS 18-13 Page 32 26 Mar 2001 ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 18-13 Page 33 26 Mar 2001 ================================================================= FIDONEWS INFORMATION ================================================================= ***FIDONEWS INFORMATION*** + -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- FIDONEWS STAFF - -- -- -- -- -- -- + | | | Editor: Warren D. Bonner, 1:1/23, editor@fidonews.org | | Crash mail attached: Fido News@1:2320/38 | | Webmaster: Jim Barchuk, jb@fidonews.org | | Columnist: Joe Jared, 1:103/0, joejared@osirusoft.com | | (Fido Via Internet Hubs column) | | Columnist: Ol' WDB, 1:103/401, wdbonner@pacbell.net | | Humor: Chuckles & Grins, emailed to editor | | Columnist: Frank Vest, 1:124/6308.1 | | Plus The best sites of the week | | Columnist: Jack Yates when in the Gawga mood | + -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- + + -- -- -- -- -- -- -- - EDITORS EMERITI - -- -- -- -- -- -- + | | | Tom Jennings, Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell, Vince | | Perriello, Tim Pozar, Sylvia Maxwell, Donald Tees, | | Christopher Baker, Zorch Frezberg, Henk Wolsink, | | Doug Meyers | | | + -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- + "Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered trademarks of Tom Jennings, P.O. Box 410923, San Francisco, CA 94141, and are used with permission. Fidonews is published weekly by and for the members of Fidonet. Fidonews is Copyright (C) 2001 by Warren Bonner, though authors retain rights to their contributed articles, said articles are the property of the publication. Opinions expressed by the author's is strictly their own. Noncommercial duplication and distribution within Fidonet is encouraged. Authors are encouraged to send their articles in ASCII text to: Warren Bonner at one of his addresses above. The weekly edition of Fidonews is distributed through the file area FIDONEWS, and is published as echomail in the echo FIDONEWS. These sources are normally available through your Network Coordinator. The current and past issues are also available from the following sources: + -- -- -- -- -- -- - FIDONEWS AVAILABILITY - -- -- -- -- -- -- + | | | Freq FIDONEWS @ 1:140/1, or 1:396/1 | | ftp://ftp.sstar.com/fidonet/fnews/ | | ftp://ftp.nwstar.com/fidonet/fidonews/ | | http://www.fidonews.org | | email subscription: majordomo@fidonews.org | FIDONEWS 18-13 Page 34 26 Mar 2001 | (subject: help body: list) | | ftp mail: ftpmail@fidonews.org (subject: help) | | | + -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- + -----------------------------------------------------------------