F I D O N E W S -- Vol.13 No.19 (06-May-1996) +----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | A newsletter of the | ISSN 1198-4589 Published by: | | FidoNet BBS community | "FidoNews" BBS | | _ | +1-519-570-4176 | | / \ | | | /|oo \ | | | (_| /_) | | | _`@/_ \ _ | | | | | \ \\ | Editors: | | | (*) | \ )) | Donald Tees 1:221/192 | | |__U__| / \// | | | _//|| _\ / | | | (_/(_|(____/ | | | (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. | | | -- JOSEPH PULITZER | +----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | Submission address: editors 1:1/23 | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | For information, copyrights, article submissions, | | obtaining copies of fidonews or the internet gateway faq | | please refer to the end of this file. | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ======================================================================== Table of Contents ======================================================================== 1. Editorial..................................................... 1 2. Articles...................................................... 2 A_THEIST Echo on Zone 1 Backbone!........................... 2 HOLYSMOKE Echo is available on the Zone 1 Backbone!......... 3 Once again, there are no articles in the inbound............ 3 Fidonet will not die unless we let it!...................... 5 End of FidoNet or zone 1 problems?.......................... 6 3. Fidonews Information.......................................... 9 ======================================================================== Editorial ======================================================================== FidoNews 13-19 Page: 2 06 May 1996 I have one application for the position of snooze editor. Following the procedure of Tom Jennings, I will combine them into a text file available for freq as the applications come in, and make an announcement in 6-8 weeks. I will keep people informed in these editorials. There are several good articles from Europe in today's issue, and a European editor might well be in order. I would also be interested in any ideas on changes that may be appropriate at this time. For example, perhaps we should have an editor in each zone, and alternate editorials. ======================================================================== Articles ======================================================================== A_THEIST Echo on Zone 1 Backbone! Christopher Baker Rights On! 1:374/14 A_THEIST Echo Available A_theism means free of religion in the way a_political means free of politics or a_sexual means free of sex characteristics or drives. With that in mind and ever cognizant of the continued pressure of religion to intrude itself into our government and its operations, the A_THEIST Echo is provided to inform and alarm and hopefully wake up the sleeping and too long silent majority to the peril on our doorstep. It is a Zone 1 Backbone Echo Hosted and Moderated by Rights On! at 1:374/14 and Christopher Baker [card carrying member of American Atheists, Inc.] and by Jackson Harding at 3:800/857 in Hawthorndene_SA_Australia. Links may be obtained from your local Backbone source connection. Zone 3 is being Hubbed through 3:800/857. The Echo is open to anyone who can discuss, without proselytizing, the extreme desirability of maintaining the absolute separation of State and church in this country as provided for in our Constitution. A sample of the first few messages and the statement of purpose of the Echo is available as A_THEIST.ZIP from this system anytime except 0100-0130 ET and Zone 1 ZMH [USR HST V32 online] if you wish to get an idea of whether to commit disk space to the Echo. It has been on the Backbone for years. Ask your Backbone connection to get it for you! The complete info is available in the current ELISTnnn.XXX file available from your NEC or REC or here. [Request ELIST.] FidoNews 13-19 Page: 3 06 May 1996 I hope you will join us or ask your Sysop to request a link via their regular Backbone connections! TTFN. Chris ---------------------------------------------------------------------- HOLYSMOKE Echo is available on the Zone 1 Backbone! Styx Allum Out in the Styx, 1:152/20 HOLYSMOKE Echo is ready and waiting! HOLYSMOKE is a Backbone Echo that originally sprang forth from Out in the Styx of Oregon. It is carried on the Zone 1 Backbone and sent into Zones 2, 3, and 6. HOLYSMOKE is Moderated by Styx Allum on 1:152/20. If any of you or your Sysops are interested in obtaining this Echo, you or they should contact their regular, Backbone Echo source! HOLYSMOKE has appeared in FIDONET.NA [now BACKBONE.NA] since 26 Jul 92. HOLYSMOKE is an Echo for debating the merits/demerits of religions of all kinds in a friendly but contentious way. It is open to anyone who cares to argue or cajole without proselytizing or personal attacks. Wear your NOMEX undies! The Echo is now fully activated and waiting for those with an interest in fire or brimstone or a bucket of cold water. The complete rules are posted regularly in the Echo and are available in the current ELRUL archive published at 1:1/201. Come and join us in the great debate! Styx Allum, Host & Moderator 1:152/20 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Once again, there are no articles in the inbound. From: Frank Ellermann (2:240/5815.1) That's very sad, and the fourth time since december, if I recall this correctly. But I guess you should know that the snooze has many fans here in zone 2. There are at least 3 systems here in Z2, where all back issues from the beginning are available, not counting your ex libris or Marge Robbins' system in Z1. Many new nodes and points like me have nearly no other source than these back issues, to understand something about FidoNet's history. And therefore we need it. FidoNews 13-19 Page: 4 06 May 1996 Our policy is far from what I want it to be, but I believe literally in its following statement: FidoNews and the node lists are the glue that holds us together. Without them, we cease to be a community, and become just another random collection of bulletin boards. I hope that someone notices the little joke behind this quotation (?) > I think, perhaps, that the writer of a few weeks back > was correct. I think that perhaps I should resign this > post. I think that perhaps you should wait a year, because our net has now reached a critical point, it will change soon or it will slowly die. Till now from your point of view it looks like dying, but maybe you're missing the first beginnings of a new start here in Z2. Just a few facts, the most important event for FidoNet was the release of Binkley 2.60 some weeks ago, I guess that many developpers are already busy to improve it. BTW, Vince sat on your chair for several years, and he had also to publish some very thin or sad FidoNews... Then in Z2 we have now an approved user flag ENC, which finally allows for an easy arrangement of "secure" mail routing - no big deal, but something happens, the net is still alive. One of your predecessors (TJ :-) has written several editorials on PGP, and now 5 years later our coords allow to promote it actively in Fido, just have a look in the Z2 nodelist segment. Mentioning Tom, there have been at least two issues, where he has published interesting Fido-historical stuff and nothing else - apparently this situation of having no articles is not so new. And last but not least in my region 2:24 we now have a democratic regional policy compliant with P4, it only needs an IC's approvement to be fully in force. Maybe you don't know it, R2:24 is about 10 to 20 percent of FidoNet, Fido is still quite popular here and in some other regions of Z2. I hope that Pablo will like it, changing P4 from within its limitations is a kind of catch 22. I guess (and hope) that the next twelve months in Fido will become quite interesting... like 1989, but this time with a good end. It's still possible. So if you quit now, you might regret it later, just wait a year. > I would welcome letters suggesting a new editor. FidoNews 13-19 Page: 5 06 May 1996 Just in case that there is absolutely no chance to get you continuing your job, there is a node in R2:24, who had already everything repared for a german clone of FidoNews, i.e. he has set up your software and is is willing to take over, if you are completely sure, that you want to quit. It's your decision. Managing the snooze from R2:24 could be quite difficult, I guess, and writing english is nothing we're particular good in here... (kind of a threat... the snooze to the krauts, is it this you really want ? :-) Anyway, if you're desperately decided to quit this editor job, than Ralf Mahler 2:2433/433 is your man. Bye for now, Frank P.S.: If issue 19 would be empty again otherwise, feel free to publish this mail as "letter to the editor" ... of course I did not follow any ARTSPEC considerations, deliberately, because I still hope that you made up your mind and want to stay. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Fidonet will not die unless we let it! From: Martin Noreke(1:201/40) "Fidonet is dying!" This seems to be the most common article in fidonews recently. I wish to disagree, as it will only die if we let it. I am an active part in 2 zones, and can see a strong difference in how they work. A comparison based on my experiences of Zone1 and Zone2 yeilds the following in regards to mail flow: In sweden (Zone2, Region20) netmail travels the same path as echomail. This is done through "host" systems, usually the NC himself. The NEC then keeps track of the administratic process, while the NC keeps mail running (not a hard task if you have a stable system), and also keeps up with NC duties such as nodelist. The effect of this cooperation results in a netmail turnaround within Zone2, of 2-3 days to get a reply if out of region, and 1 day if in Sweden. In Zone1, of which I only have a few months experince, netmail travels a seperate path, through the *C structure, while echomail travels through the *EC structure. Why? *C:s as I have understood it, do not poll as often as *EC:s do, resulting in echomail being faster than netmail. Echomail usually has a 2 day turnaround, to go from net-backbone-net as I have experienced before. This results in a 4 day responce time. Considering that netmail is *slower* than echomail, is it correct to be calling the postal service "snail FidoNews 13-19 Page: 6 06 May 1996 mail"??? To boot, lots of systems in Zone1 don't even offer netmail to their users, resulting in a no win situation. How are users expected to keep on topic, if they can't use netmail to take OT discussions out of echos? Snailmail? Sorry, they don't have netmail access. If we are to compete with the Internet, we have to use it to our advantage, or at least be able to offer a better speed of service than that which is currently available. With all the fidonet systems currently hooked up to the internet, it should be simple for one of them to be set up as a backbone. Any net could then get an internet account, and send the mail cheaply straight to the backbone system. This would result in faster, cheaper mail, as well as making netmail what it could be. There should be no charge involved for the nets wishing to get mail through the internet, except the cost of the account. I motivate this with the fact that so many have fixed lines already, many of them for free or already payed for by their BBS service, that we should be able to find a volunteer. Considering how widespread the Internet is, it doesn't even have to be a Zone1 system. In fact, N?C:s could poll the "international backbone" straight off, giving all nets an equall opertunity for fast, speady mail. R?C:s could care for regional mail, such as national conferences for countries outside the US. The sky is the limit on how far we can take this. We caould in fact "rape" the Internet so far, that Fidonet would regain it's position as a force to be reconned with, when it comes to friendly mail, and a way to meet new people. I poll Sweden just to keep in touch, and meet new people, since Zone1 mail is to slow for me. My Zone1 nodenumber (PVT), is mearly due to the fact that I redistribute swedish mail to other nodes. If this was not done, I would mearly be an "international point". Scary thought, isn't it? Well, thats all from me for this time, and I hope I wasn't to incoherent for you to follow along with me. / Martin Noreke 1:201/40 2:201/293.16 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of FidoNet or zone 1 problems? Or are the states the center of the universe? by Werner Gottwald 2:2480/13.152 - Sorry to tell you but I can't stand these laments of the end of the FidoNet anymore. I'm only a point in R24 and I see the amount of users growing in Germany. So where is the problem? FidoNews 13-19 Page: 7 06 May 1996 I had a look at some nodelists of this year. And I found some interesting things I like to tell you. First I looked at the different regions. Here you can see the zone 1. Nodelist | Zone | Reg. | Nets | Nodes -------------+-------+------+-------+------- NODELIST.068 | 1 | 10 | 436 | 16245 NODELIST.082 | 1 | 10 | 433 | 16125 NODELIST.103 | 1 | 10 | 433 | 15821 NODELIST.110 | 1 | 10 | 432 | 15685 NODELIST.117 | 1 | 10 | 434 | 15583 NODELIST.124 | 1 | 10 | 434 | 15504 It's true, zone 1 is shrinking. Less nets and 741 nodes left FidoNet. Zone 3 (Australia) shrinked a little bit, nearly 60 nodes less within a quarter of a year. In zone 4, 5 and 6 I found stagnation, nearly nothing changed. So there must be about 810 nodes less in the last quarter of the year. Let's make a calculation. Nodelist.068 minus Nodelist.124. Nodelist | Zone | Reg. | Nets | Nodes -------------+-------+------+-------+------- NODELIST.068 | | 74 | 813 | 37174 ( NODELIST.082 | | 74 | 809 | 36799 ) ( NODELIST.103 | | 74 | 814 | 37010 ) ( NODELIST.110 | | 74 | 815 | 36809 ) ( NODELIST.117 | | 74 | 815 | 36591 ) NODELIST.124 | | 74 | 818 | 36592 -------------+-------+------+-------+------- + 5 - 582 There should be a decrease of 810 nodes! What's up with zone 2? Should there be a growth? Nodelist | Zone | Reg. | Nets | Nodes -------------+-------+------+-------+------- NODELIST.068 | 2 | 34 | 264 | 17584 NODELIST.082 | 2 | 34 | 264 | 17710 NODELIST.103 | 2 | 34 | 268 | 17862 NODELIST.110 | 2 | 34 | 269 | 17824 NODELIST.117 | 2 | 34 | 270 | 17808 NODELIST.124 | 2 | 34 | 270 | 17817 The number of nets grows! Even the amount of nodes rose. Why are there 233 nodes more than three months ago? It has been necessary to look at the regions. And I found stagnation in a lot of european countries. In some there are only a few nodes less. Where to find the growth? Russia and the eastern countries are growing. And they will grow. They found a way of independent communication. Now FidoNews 13-19 Page: 8 06 May 1996 they can get informations direct from people who don't belong to the government or write for them in newspapers. But they aren't well supplied. With the rising amount of computers in the eastern countries, the number of nodes will rise. In R24(Germany) there has been a astonishing increase of nearly 100 nodes. Actually there are 7351 nodes. It seems to be a special western country. Here are also some big internet-provider like Compuserve and AOL, and the maybe unknown EOL (europe online) and T-Online (german Telekom) and a lot of small providers. So it would be easy to surf around in the www. And the mails will be faster and so on. What's so special? We have still a telecommunication monopol. The german telekom can (nearly) ask the charge they want to. So 10 hours online in i-net will cost you about 90$ (US) a month (provider + telkom charge). That's one reason. The second reason is the speed of our datahighways. Last year I tested AOL. The slow speed of the datahighway (what a joke) has been boring. I was waiting all the time till I saw some uninteresting pictures or texts. There will be some datahighways in germany next years, then it will be interesting. Now I don't like to spend money for waiting only. Third reason is the quality of the conferences. If you want to meet a lot of twits or see no mails ... These are some reasons FidoNet don't shrink in Germany. At the beginning of the year, the nodes of R24 voted for a Region Policy (it's still not acknowledged) and we work on a RegionEchomail Policy. Our new REC will do his best to force it. This gave some of the newbees a kick to stay in FidoNet and a few will be new nodes in future. I heard, users have to pay for netmail in the states. I can't believe it. I'm point, mustn't pay anything for being one nor sending/receiving netmail, I can give a contribution to my boss. Additionally my boss gave me an Internet-address for free (and not only me, he has about 160 Points), so I can receive and write emails. The most of his users don't use this service. If someone will use it extensionally, he know what his boss must pay and will pay his own bill. Nobody likes to cheat a kind person he knows. Is it right american users are leaving the FidoNet cause they must pay being a user in FidoNet? And they pay only a little more for better oportunities in i-net? - Could be a point to think about. read you in FidoNet Werner FidoNews 13-19 Page: 9 06 May 1996 ======================================================================== Fidonews Information ======================================================================== ------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION ---------------- Editor: Donald Tees Editors Emeritii: Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell, Vince Perriello, Tim Pozar Tom Jennings, Sylvia Maxwell "FidoNews" BBS FidoNet 1:1/23 BBS +1-519-570-4176, 300/1200/2400/14400/V.32bis/HST(DS) more addresses: Don -- 1:221/192, don@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca (Postal Service mailing address) FidoNews 154 Victoria St. S. Kitchener, Ontario Canada N2H 2b5 voice: (519) 570-4899 Fidonews is published weekly by and for the members of the FIDONET INTERNATIONAL AMATEUR ELECTRONIC MAIL system. It is a compilation of individual articles contributed by their authors or their authorized agents. The contribution of articles to this compilation does not diminish the rights of the authors. Opinions expressed in these articles are those of the authors and not necessarily those of FidoNews. Authors retain copyright on individual works; otherwise FidoNews is Copyright 1996 Donald Tees. All rights reserved. Duplication and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only. For use in other circumstances, please contact the original authors, or the eds. OBTAINING COPIES: The most recent issue of FidoNews in electronic form may be obtained from the FidoNews BBS via manual download or Wazoo FileRequest, or from various sites in the FidoNet and Internet. PRINTED COPIES may be obtained by sending SASE to the above paper-mail address. INTERNET USERS: FidoNews is available via FTP from ftp.fidonet.org, in directory ~ftp/pub/fidonet/fidonews. Anyone interested in getting a copy of the INTERNET GATEWAY FAQ may freq GISFAQ.ZIP from 1:133/411.0, or send an internet message to fidofaq@gisatl.fidonet.org. No message or text or subject is necessary. The address is a keyword that will trigger the automated response. People wishing to send inquiries directly to David Deitch should now mail to fidonet@gisatl.fidonet.org rather than the FidoNews 13-19 Page: 10 06 May 1996 previously listed address. SUBMISSIONS: You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in FidoNews. Article submission requirements are contained in the file ARTSPEC.DOC, available from the FidoNews BBS, or Wazoo filerequestable from 1:1/23 as file "ARTSPEC.DOC". Please read it. "Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered trademarks of Tom Jennings, and are used with permission. ' ' disgreement is actually necessary, or we'd all have to get in fights or semethin to amuse ourselves,, and create the requisite chaos." -Tom Jennings -- END -------------------------------------------------------------------