F I D O N E W S -- Vol.12 No.18 (01-May-1995) +----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | A newsletter of the | ISSN 1198-4589 Published by: | | FidoNet BBS community | "FidoNews" BBS | | _ | +1-519-570-4176 | | / \ | | | /|oo \ | Sheep affairs desk: | | (_| /_) | Doc Logger 1:163/110 | | _`@/_ \ _ | Rev. Richard Visage 1:163/409 | | | | \ \\ | | | | (*) | \ )) | Editors: | | |__U__| / \// | Donald Tees 1:221/192 | | _//|| _\ / | Sylvia Maxwell 1:221/194 | | (_/(_|(____/ | | | (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. | | | -- JOSEPH PULITZER | +----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | Submission address: editors 1:1/23 | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | MORE addresses: | | | | submissions=> editor@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca | | Don -- don@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca | | Max -- max@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca | | Tim Pozar -- pozar@kumr.lns.com | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | For information, copyrights, article submissions, | | obtaining copies of fidonews or the internet gateway faq | | please refer to the end of this file. | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ======================================================================== Table of Contents ======================================================================== 1. Editorial..................................................... 1 2. Articles...................................................... 2 Subject:The Internet........................................ 2 Echo Mail isn't sold by Burger King......................... 3 Re: Computers and the Graphic Age........................... 4 3. Fidonews Information.......................................... 5 ======================================================================== Editorial ======================================================================== FidoNews 12-18 Page: 2 01 May 1995 The ECROC arguement continues in today's issue. I think it is becoming one of those "I am damn well going to get the last word in" issues. If anything makes a point for a moderator being able to just cut a feed, it is those types of arguements. Most moderators just want to keep the echo running, on topic, and with a minimum of fuss. Making them work twice as hard so that a legal type can have the last word is annoying. Probably more annoying than the odd attilla the moderator. Besides, ever sysop or user can cut an echo at any time they want. Communication is a two way street. Mr. Ari Pollak has submited an internet article, and offered to write a weekly one if enough interest is shown. I have a question for him, or for any other sysop listening. I read a post today that mentioned finding a fidonet front end on the WWW. The poster logged in just as if it was a telephone. *HOW DO I DO THAT?*. If I set a BBS line up that way, how is mail handled? Lets get some technical articles in, huh? ======================================================================== Articles ======================================================================== Subject:The Internet From: Ari Pollak (1:107/302) The internet is THE center of the information superhighway. Going by that route, there can also be many different problems along the way. If this submission enters fidonews, I will submit a column about the internet, for interest to the general fidonet community, about internet software, basics, and problems that newcomers will probably encounter along the way. If you have an idea about an article I can write, something that would be of interest to the general public, or about a problem that many people should know about, just e-mail me (not crash, I'm a private node) at: Ari Pollak, 1:107/302 or aripc@ibm.net Coming next week: Review and comparison of various Internet browsers, plus the latest versions of different browsers. FidoNews 12-18 Page: 3 01 May 1995 Echo Mail isn't sold by Burger King From: Fredric L. Rice (1:102/890.0) In FidoNews 12-17, the debate continues as to who owns an Echo Mail forum and what measures are needed to exact control over 'difficult' participants. Fear not; I'll not bother to respond to Bob's continued personal attacks as he searches vainly for his goat (which is securely tied up in my back yard and who will be appearing as the main guest of honor at tonights dinner) yet I would like to address two comments made by Phillip Murray of 1:3648/12. pm> So what happens when a moderator asks a SySop to pm> remove an unruly poster, and the sysop refuses? pm> Seems like that's when we pick teams and start pm> fighting. As you pointed out, the ability to control an Echo Mail forum is only as good as the links leading _to_ the disruptive participant and the backbone of the Moderator. As each link in the chain refuses to delink the problem individual, the request for removal must climb higher until the problem is repaired. If many innocent systems stop getting an Echo Mail forum because a higher-up is violating the Moderator's rules, they must take their argument to the violating SysOp, not the Moderator. Else they must create a bypass link. Where's the problem in that method? I see none. It works. No recourse is granted, however, to a Moderator when an unruly participant threatens to sue if they're delinked. Moderators who are bullied by such threats capitulate and loose control. That problem _could_ be addressed in network Policy if people feel the need. Phill, one of your contentions seem to be the amount of time a Moderator gives a link to respond and cut a disruptive user. You feel that perhaps it's quite often that a Moderator does not grant enough time for the cut to take effect. That's a perfectly reasonable issue and calling for Policy to suggest a time limit also seems reasonable. pm> Moderators might have absolute control of their echo, pm> but they must also make allowances for the fact that pm> their echo exists inside a network, and without the pm> network, the echo probably ceases to be an echo. I agree fully. For some reason there are individuals who think that each forum must be a Democracy where the Moderator can be overruled and/or displaced by majority vote. Because there is one or two individuals responsible for the control and content of a forum, they feel "...A need to put limits on petty dictators..." (Death to the boregeous ruleing class! Give FidoNews 12-18 Page: 4 01 May 1995 back the government to the working class people!) Echo Mail isn't sold by Burger King. Participants can't have the rules their way. Echo Mail is Dell Taco; you get what's on the menu so don't even bother asking for french fries. I can't help but think that the people who wish to impliment such Draconian rules have a specific forum in mind or specific individuals in mind. They would wish to impose their own Hobby Horse upon the network and force everyone else to ride it. The current system is reasonable and it works. Let's not fix what isn't broken and focus upon what _is_ broken. Ya' want fries with that? Fredric L. Rice 1:102/890.0 (818) 335-9601 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Computers and the Graphic Age By Allen Cain 1:362/940 I have all respect for Mr. Robert LaPrise, author of this article. However, I feel that I must stand up for the teen-age community (well, most of it, at least). > In todays graphic age, young computer users/BBSer's > do not learn the older more "verbal" methods of communicating > with their system and this trend carries over into their > communications skills with others as well. How many of us have > seen the 13 or 14 year old Sysop (face it, every kid with a > modem is eventually a Sysop cause it's *cool*) who's general > message format is about 4 or 5 lines of misspelled text. I am 15, and have had a computer for about a year and a half. They are my passion, and hopefully are a future career. I can use DOS commands as well as some adults, and I actually teach one of my teachers how to use computers. I don't mean to sound arrogant, but I am proving a point. I use Windows, as most people do, but it doesn't appeal to me as much as the sense of being in control of my computer. Admittedly, there are some younger people who should be taught a thing or two about communications, but the majority of the people I know and have come to know over Fidonet and Internet are already proficient. [text deleted for brevity] > the menu keys will work for them but the logoff function. > These same callers are also our new generation of programmers > growing up not with GWBASIC or BASICA as many of us did (with > the attention to detail it required helping us to develop our > language skills) but with Visual BASIC and Windows and a > general lack of communication skills. > Personally I would be very hesitant to run a program FidoNews 12-18 Page: 5 01 May 1995 > written by someone who misspells their own name half the time, > cannot (or will not) read the rules and instructions presented > them when calling a new BBS. Sir, I must agree with you on the Visual BASIC point. But exactly how many young people own a copy of Visual BASIC, Visual C++, or other visual programming environments. I, for one, only possess the copy of MS Q-BASIC that came with DOS 6.0. Also, exactly who speaks in terms of "10 REM THIS IS COOL, HUH?" Therefore, I believe that the blame does not lie as much in the simplicity of the user interface, but rather in the person's education in terms of language and grammar, which is a completely different topic altogether. > Perhaps we should not concern ourselves as exlusivley with > who is running the show as much as who we are letting in to watch it. > And perhaps (as a hopeful future parent to those that > currently are) we should spend more time making sure our younger > generation is developing proper reading and writing skills rather > than patting ouselves on the back because "Our little Johnny just > wrote another program with Visual BASIC. Isn't he wonderful?" Exactly, sir. I respect your views; however, I don't believe that the problem is today's "easy-to-use" PC's. It's in the family and educational systems. Allen Cain 1:362/940 Allen37594@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======================================================================== Fidonews Information ======================================================================== ------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION ---------------- Editors: Donald Tees, Sylvia Maxwell Editors Emeritii: Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell, Vince Perriello, Tim Pozar Tom Jennings "FidoNews" BBS FidoNet 1:1/23 BBS +1-519-570-4176, 300/1200/2400/14400/V.32bis/HST(DS) more addresses: Rev. Richard Visage -- 1:163/409 Don -- 1:221/192, don@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca Sylvia -- 1:221/194, max@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca Tim -- pozar@kumr.lns.com (Postal Service mailing address) FidoNews 12-18 Page: 6 01 May 1995 FidoNews 128 Church St. Kitchener, Ontario Canada N2H 2S4 voice: (519) 570-3137 Fidonews is published weekly by and for the members of the FIDONET INTERNATIONAL AMATEUR ELECTRONIC MAIL system. It is a compilation of individual articles contributed by their authors or their authorized agents. The contribution of articles to this compilation does not diminish the rights of the authors. Opinions expressed in these articles are those of the authors and not necessarily those of FidoNews. Authors retain copyright on individual works; otherwise FidoNews is Copyright 1995 Donald Tees. All rights reserved. Duplication and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only. For use in other circumstances, please contact the original authors, or the eds. Articles by Madam emilia may be retransmitted freely through cyber-space. OBTAINING COPIES: The most recent issue of FidoNews in electronic form may be obtained from the FidoNews BBS via manual download or Wazoo FileRequest, or from various sites in the FidoNet and Internet. PRINTED COPIES may be obtained by sending SASE to the above paper-mail address, or trade for copy of your 'zine. INTERNET USERS: FidoNews is available via FTP from ftp.fidonet.org, in directory ~ftp/pub/fidonet/fidonews. Anyone interested in getting a copy of the INTERNET GATEWAY FAQ may freq GISFAQ.ZIP from 1:133/411.0, or send an internet message to fidofaq@gisatl.fidonet.org. No message or text or subject is necessary. The address is a keyword that will trigger the automated response. People wishing to send inquiries directly to David Deitch should now mail to fidonet@gisatl.fidonet.org rather than the previously listed address. SUBMISSIONS: You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in FidoNews. Article submission requirements are contained in the file ARTSPEC.DOC, available from the FidoNews BBS, or Wazoo filerequestable from 1:1/23 as file "ARTSPEC.DOC". Please read it. "Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered trademarks of Tom Jennings, and are used with permission. "the pulse of the cursor is the heartbeat of fidonet"... -- END ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FidoNews 12-18 Page: 7 01 May 1995