F I D O N E W S -- Vol.11 No.49 (05-Dec-1994) +----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | A newsletter of the | ISSN 1198-4589 Published by: | | FidoNet BBS community | "FidoNews" BBS | | _ | +1-519-570-4176 | | / \ | | | /|oo \ | Small animal psychology and | | (_| /_) | Spiritual guidance Department: | | _`@/_ \ _ | Rev. Richard Visage 1:163/409 | | | | \ \\ | | | | (*) | \ )) | Editor: | | |__U__| / \// | Donald Tees 1:221/192 | | _//|| _\ / | Sylvia Maxwell 1:221/194 | | (_/(_|(____/ | Tim | | (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. | | | -- JOSEPH PULITZER | +----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | Submission address: editors 1:1/23 | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | MORE addresses: | | | | Don -- don@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca | | Tim Pozar -- pozar@kumr.lns.com | | David Deitch -- 1:133/411.411, deitch@gisatl.fidonet.org | | | submissions=> editor@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | For information, copyrights, article submissions, | | obtaining copies of fidonews or the internet gateway faq | | please refer to the end of this file. | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ======================================================================== Table of Contents ======================================================================== 1. Editorial..................................................... 2 2. Articles...................................................... 2 Discriminatory Discrimination............................... 2 RAMMING ECHOS............................................... 4 Swamp Swine Magazine,....................................... 5 SYNDICATE-NET............................................... 7 How can the ZC ignore this?................................. 9 Fidonews for the Blind...................................... 18 In Consideration of Others.................................. 18 A chat with our resigning FidoNet Z6C, Mr. Honlin Lue....... 19 3. Fidonews Information.......................................... 21 FidoNews 11-49 Page: 2 05 Dec 1994 ======================================================================== Editorial ======================================================================== Having just driven 600 hundred kilometers home from a job in the north, this will be a quick editorial. We are rapidly approaching the deadline. BTW, how does one know that one is really "up north" when in Canada? Well, you hit the scan button on the radio, and it just circles the dial for an hour of driving. Then the radio suddenly blares into existance at about 3000 decibels, just about scaring you off the road. Passing a sign that says "New semi's from builder -- $19,900" also clues you in that you are not in the city anymore. A note to the various sides of the articles for the blind issue. If someone can write up some guidelines, we will insert them into ARTSPEC.DOC. That document is about due for revision anyway. I have to caution, however, that only about two out of every five articles pay any attention to the specification. About the only current requirement is do not use beyond column 72, and an asterisk in column one is the title line. Today, four articles used asterisks in column one for bullets, and three had to be rejustified. While I have some sympathy for the issue, there is a limit to how much work one can do. ======================================================================== Articles ======================================================================== Discriminatory Discrimination by Steve White It has been suggested in a previous article of the Snooze that the format and basic construction of the Snooze is discriminatory against sight-impaired persons. While I can sympathize with the situation as presented, and must admit I had never considered it before, a second article in the same vein has raised a more disturbing specter than the subject of the articles themselves. Quite plainly, it would seem accusations of discrimination are being leveled against the publishers of the Snooze because someone did not get his or her way. While the argument presented in reference to taking out unnecessary characters, etc., was sound in and of itself, the second article on the same subject carried a tone of nothing less than common "strong-arm" intent in bullying someone into a course of action favorable to the author. I would like to remind that author that while I'm sure there are problems for the sight impaired which we can find accomodation for, the sight-normal readership of the Snooze might be quite happy with the current format, thank you. Discrimination is the act of making a clear distinction or acting on the basis of prejudice. A discriminatory act against a handicapped person would be along the lines of erecting a building on top of a FidoNews 11-49 Page: 3 05 Dec 1994 foundation with 50 steps leading to the access points and not providing a means for wheelchair access. In other words, the "locking out" of the individual discriminated against from activities and places normally afforded other individuals. No one has "locked out" or published an issue of the Snooze in such a way as to exclude the sight impaired. It may not be as convenient as a sight-impaired person might like, but it's obviously legible even to a reading device. The Snooze is not discriminatory. All are welcome to participate. Where the author of the article thought it was "callousness" on the part of the editor in stating the editor's feelings on the situation instead of implementing the author's suggested changes, even though it might take several months, I would submit no changes are needed. Perhaps the author should look at the text of his own articles for a lesson in tactics. It was mentioned that a "large group of members of this network" were discomfited without mentioning an actual figure. It was also mentioned that a new version of the Snooze without the current formating should become the Snooze itself. Also mentioned was "my attempt at education." While I must thank the author for raising my consciousness with regard to the problems with ASCII characters and screen readers, I must also say I'm disappointed with the tone and seeming intent of the second article. Whether the author was trying to invoke feelings in sight-normal persons similar to his own, I can't be sure of as I'm not that author, but I can say with a resonable degree of certainty that I would feel discriminated against if such sweeping changes were undertaken in the format of the Snooze based on the fancies of a minority. Yes, majorities can be discriminated against by minorities, no matter the reason for the distinction. Should we require all art galleries to carry two of each painting, one for sighted persons and one with special textures for the sighting impaired? The idea is ludicrous, yes, and an example of the extreme being suggested by the author with regard to changes in the format of the Snooze. In summation, it would be nice if everyone could have their way in this world, and everything was perfect. It would be grand if every store carried the exact color and size to suit everyone. Just as there is diversity in things bought and sold, though, there is diversity in those who purchase, use, consume, and read those products. Nothing can please everyone. I'm not going to suggest the author start his or her own Fido newspaper as I feel this one is just fine for anyone's purpose and it wouldn't be practical. What I would suggest is the author try and compromise, if possible, or come up with a workable solution acceptable to all, rather than a few, in solving his or her problems. After all, wasn't the original article merely a complaint of inconvenience? We all deal with inconvenience in one form or another in our daily lives, some more than others. When the inconvenience becomes the impossible, then I would agree something should be done immediately. Where the inconvenience is simply an annoyance, then FidoNews 11-49 Page: 4 05 Dec 1994 maybe the matter is just that, an annoyance, and shouldn't become such an issue that baseless accusations are hurled without forethought of the total picture or the certain knowledge of the motives of those we don't agree with. Force meets resistance. Threats beget threats. Sometimes you don't succeed, no matter how hard you try. Calm and rational usually prevails. Change takes place best one step at a time. Hate mail and blatant flames should be directed to: Steve White 1:3626/2 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RAMMING ECHOS Original Area: Warnings Original From: Bill Dirks (1:250/603) Original To : All (1:250/603) This is to inform and warn everyone who reads, handles, receives, routes, etc. echomail within Fidonet and any other net using FTN type mailers. I will TRY to keep this short. Recently, a moderator of a Fidonet echo, in an effort to get readers of echos similar to his, to only use his echo and not the others, has enlisted the aid of a few people who using a program called "Bogus" have flooded these other echos with virus source code (actual) and some extreme adult material in an effort to get nodes to cut those echos. Unfortunately, It has to a large degree worked. Without getting into the technical details, those wanting to disrupt or flood an echo with nonsense can do so with the program Bogus. The problem is with this program, these misfits can "forge" mail to look legit to the "unsecure" system they send it to. Who are the unsecure systems?? Any system that isn't operating with a session password and/or packet passwords regarding echomail feeds, IN PARTICULAR HUBS, are being hit. But here lies the problem. Unless all hubs trace their calls to everyone calling them, this can and will continue. The reason for this is the current ZC and ZEC for Fidonet. Yes, the ZC & ZEC are aware of the problem. They have even been told who the "actual" responsible systems are for feeding in this garbage. They have done nothing to date. The folks over at PC tried to but received so much grief, they had to back off. Be aware that the affected echo moderators have tried to cut feeds, etc. to stop this. Those cut continue to win on appeal to the ZC & ZEC because without a wiretap in place before targeted, FidoNews 11-49 Page: 5 05 Dec 1994 this will continue to happen. Yes, it's that bad to provide proof except......... One of the main cretins let his pride get the best of him. With his permission, an underground publication published/acknowledged what he did. However..... even with this presented to both the ZC & ZEC, they are not doing anything. OVERALL, my warning is this. Do not accept echomail from systems without a session password in place. Next, notify the Fidonet Hierarchy that you are not happy with them doing anything to combat the problem. This is a very complex issue that's hard to explain briefly. I probably created more questions than what I answered to those aware of the problem. If you want to discuss this in general terms without names and systems involved, I'll happily answer any and all questions. Those wanting more specifics need to address it to net mail. While as yet unconfirmed, they have done this to at least one echo in another network. It's 50%+ credible right now as the program being used to disrupt current activities will work on other networks also. Anyway, if you have the time, write the ZC or ZEC and ask why they haven't done anything to cutoff those nodes creating the garbage in the Dirty_Dozen, Virus, and Virus_Info echos so far even after they've been provided from numerous sources, who the offenders are? You might be surprised by their response if you get one, even if at the RC/REC level. Bill Dirks P.S. In the FWIW category, I'm personally pursuing this matter along other channels to fix it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Swamp Swine Magazine, Laiphrog Tanker Division, Shuckmagosh, Ohio Dear Reverend Visage, Bad craziness abounds. I am saddened to report that this week's winner of an all expenses paid vacation in the "Betty Ford Clinic For the Thinking Impaired" is none other than Bob Satti (cue the plague of amoeba,his intellectual peers.) Bob "Bob" Satti, demonstrated that basic literacy and comprehension skills are not requisites for Fidogods when he misread the appeal documents and ruled in support of our narcoleptic RC, Rick "IS the Big Red Button The One You Press to Transmit?" Johnston. Unfortunately, Bob "Bob" Satti FidoNews 11-49 Page: 6 05 Dec 1994 (cue the plague of Speak 'N Spell Modules) only managed to grunt a few short sentences in elucidating his contused reasoning, but it was apparent that both the facts of the case and basic logic were deemed irrelevant. Someone with a higher tolerance for slow-moving, non-sentient creatures ought to prod Bob and ask him just what in Gawd's creation (with appropriate co-author credits to Steve Winter) he found in the original policy complaint that was either accurate or provided cause for banishment from Fidonet. In any event, The Lukester's appeal will find it's way into the lap of George Peace. (cue Banquo's ghost in the form of Bob MacKay.) To recap for our regular reader, a failed NC candidate named Matthew Stein decided that he ought to file a policy complaint against one of his detractors during the campaign. The object of Stein's misaffections, Luke Kolin, had already incurred the wrath of the RC, Rick "Weekend At Bernies" Johnston by suggesting that Rick ought to pay at least lip service to running a functional mailer. The policy adjudication by the NC250 politely suggested that Stein was being an annoying git, but Stein rushed off an appeal to Johnston where he knew that concepts like truth, justice and reality were lost in the black hole of the RC's sedimentary mind. Without much surprise, Johnston ruled in Stein's favour whereupon the matter was turfed upstairs to the feet of the Fidogod, Bob "Bob" Satti. It is obvious now, that the usage of multisyllabic words and sentences longer than four words confused Satti, who issued the literary equivalent of a few grunts in support of the RC's demented logic. A nice warm hand job for Bob, I say, and may the farce be with him and may his days in office be numbered in low digits. I was moved by the last Snooz wherein a concerned soul expressed outrage that this esteemed organ contained words which may not be suitable for viewing by children. Just as a kind of baseline reality test, does anyone happen to know whose children would read this thing, or is he making an incredibly subtle point of about the arrested emotional maturity of Fidonet sysops in general? We should be told. Why is it, Visage, that there always seems to be someone whose eyebrows don't meet on their forehead only by dint of electrolysis, who emerges from the woodwork to whine about content? As a good and decent gesture, I would think that the sniveling soul should contribute at least six wholesome articles to the snooze. Y'know, heartwarming stuff about family picnics in front of the computer where Billy Jim Bob, the web-footed offspring, says "Gosh" and "Swell" at regular intervals. Mr. " B 4 I 4 Q R U 18 Q T Pi?" Tharin's concerns were expressed again in the latest snooz. He feels that ascii art FidoNews 11-49 Page: 7 05 Dec 1994 in the Snooz is prejudicial to his rights as a sighted impaired person who must hear each character through a voice synth. I couldn't agree more with his sentiments and I would hope that television programmers wake up to this same insensitivity and drop the video feed from their broadcasts. Gawd knows, we would not want any aspect of our lives to rise above the lowest common denominator. Far be if for me to suggest something sensible, but perhaps he could have saved the birdshot expended from both barrels by enquiring if there wasn't some kind soul who would volunteer to produce and make file requestable, a voice synth friendly version of the Snooz. I would empower Ms. Labamba for this task but unfortunately, she has an over-hormonal response to the voice synth's pronunciation of : "Zoo Kee Knee." (Just as a form of community service, if Mr. Tharin embarks on this task, perhaps he could also find someone willing to reduce the snooz to "See Dick. See Jane" vocabulary so that it can be comprehended by the less gifted Fidogods.) I must go Visage, the Snooz dominatrix, Ms. Emelia, has your latest petty cash vouchers in one hand, and Newt Gingrich's ethics in the other. She looks dangerous and her unsettled state really has nothing at all to do with the fact that I shipped over a smallish flock of Emus to her house for safekeeping. As a good and decent gesture, I suggest that she be sent to the West Coast as Bob's Phonetics teacher. Regards, Doc Logger, Giant Clam Rancher, Yap Island, Micronesia ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SYNDICATE-NET by Al Miller 1:261/1136 /\ \ \ YNDICATE-NET - (C) copyright 1994 -- Todd Alan Rourke \/ Invitation for new members. Syndicate Network was formed on October 20, 1991 when a group of friends got together and decided to make a friendly, intellectually stimulating network. Since then the network has expanded and we currently have nodes all over North America. The main reason people join networks is to obtain access to the information contained in the ECHOs of the network. Syndicate Network has it's share of intellectually stimulating ECHOs. A list of the available ECHOs and their descriptions follows: Administrative Echoes FidoNews 11-49 Page: 8 05 Dec 1994 * SYN_SYSOP - Sysop only ECHO SYN_HUB - HUB only ECHO * SYN_GLOBAL - Main chat area SYN_MODERATOR - Private MODERATOR echo. SYN_OFFICE - Public network policy discussion area for users. SYN_TESTXXX - Testing area for new nodes (specific to each net). SYN_REGXXX - Regional forum (specific to each region). Public Discussion Echoes SYN-AMIGA - Amiga Users Forum SYN-ATHEISM - Atheist discussion group. SYN-BBS - BBS/SysOp support area. SYN-C&PASCAL - C & Pascal programmers discussion. SYN-CONSERV - Conservative political think-tank. SYN-DOS - DOS-Based computing area. SYN-RHETORIC - Conservatives & Liberals 'duke it out!' SYN-EMA - Cinema and movie reviews/production. SYN-ENVIRON - Environmental issues forum. SYN-FAITH - Religious discussion group. SYN-JIHAD - Atheism and Religion go to 'holy war!' SYN-LIBERAL - Liberal political think-tank. SYN-MAILER - Frontend mailer support forum. SYN-MUSIC - Musical discussion and reviews. SYN-OS2 - OS/2 users forum. SYN-QDECK - QuarterDeck utility discussion. SYN-SOUND - Sound cards, etc SYN-TELECOM - Basics of telecommunications. SYN-WINDOWS - Windows support area. SYN-WRITERS - Writers forum for reviews/critique. SYN-XBASE - XBASE programming discussion. W-WOMEN - Women's issues, women only. W-TEENS - Teen's issues, teens only. W-RECOVERY - Addiction recovery, 12 steps. W-PRICE - For sale/trade. W-DEEP - Deep thoughts and nonsense. W-HEALTH - Health and fitness. W-SPEAK - Other languages (French, Spanish, etc). W-FOOD - Food, dining and cooking. File Echoes * SYN_ADMIN - Nodelists, policy updates, etc. SYN_ERGY - Politically related files. SYN_THESIS - Religiously related files. *= required to carry for net membership So if you are interested in joining an intellectually stimulating network then Syndicate network is the place for you. For more information about Syndicate network you should contact: ZEC: Todd Rourke, FidoNet 1:323/110 ZC: Al Miller, FidoNet 1:261/1136 FidoNews 11-49 Page: 9 05 Dec 1994 Both of these systems will have the latest policy documentation and ECHO lists available for file request under the magic name SYN-NET. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- How can the ZC ignore this? Mr. Bob Satti, ZC I am submitting this response to Rick Johnston's appeal decision as an amicus curiae since I have direct knowledge of the circumstances which generated the policy complaint, was involved in several mediation attempts, and have an interest as a sysop peasant concerning the misapplication of Policy Complaints to achieve social objectives. Rick Johnston's decision should be overturned for the following reasons: 1) That the complaint arises out of the attempts by Matthew Stein to use policy to foster his socially maladroit notions of the purpose of Fidonet. 2) That the complaint, having already been the subject of Mr. Kolin's removal from the net, is a form of double-jeopardy. 3) That Mr. Stein participated in numerous mediation meetings, agreed to settlements, and then reneged on each agreement in his singular pursuit of Mr. Kolin's node number. 4) That Johnston's findings of fact cannot be adduced from the evidence, and particularly since the provenance of the "evidence" was supplied by Mr. Stein. 5) That Johnston did not provide a copy of the requested grounds for the appeal to Mr. Kolin prior to rendering a decision. 6) That there was no demonstrable harm done to either Mr. Stein or Fidonet in general by the alleged activities of Mr. Kolin. Point 1: I was involved in a lengthy meeting with Luke Kolin, Rick Johnston & Matthew Stein where the various complaints raised by Mr. Stein were discussed. Mr. Kolin had been summarily removed from both the democratically elected NC250 position and from the nodelist by Rick Johnston; without benefit of notice or an opportunity to provide a defense. The meeting had been arranged to attempt to convince Mr. Johnston that more than lip service to the concept of natural justice was required from someone who professed to have the skills to be FidoNews 11-49 Page: 10 05 Dec 1994 RC. During the meeting, it was clear that Mr. Stein's political ambitions (he was standing as a candidate for NC250) coloured his judgment with respect to Mr. Kolin. At the end of the meeting, all parties had agreed to certain conditions, one of which was the re-admittance of Mr. Kolin in the nodelist. Mr. Johnston also agreed to the terms of the agreement. The following day, Mr. Stein, who was acting as co-NC at the time, refused to honour the terms of the agreement, citing a change of heart. When Mr. Stein subsequently lost the election, he then filed the policy complaint which is the basis for this appeal. Another mediation meeting was arranged wherein Mr. Stein's only contribution was a repetition of "I want Luke's Nodenumber." It was clear that Mr. Stein's dislike of Mr. Kolin precluded him from resolving what was obviously something other than a technical problem. Point 2: The issues in the policy complaint had already resulted in Mr. Kolin's removal from the nodelist for a period that lasted seven weeks. When the original complaint was made, Mr. Johnston simply excised Mr. Kolin's nodenumber from the nodediff submission without giving Mr. Kolin an opportunity to provide a defense. It would be ludicrous to allow Matthew Stein to revisit the *same* issues and obtain an additional punitive action against Mr. Kolin. It should be noted that there have been no new complaints since the first series filed by Mr. Stein. In fact, Mr. Kolin has served Net250 as the NEC since his re-admittance to the net. If sysops are to be permitted to file complaints, attain judgments, and then file the same complaint over again which results in yet another judgment then Fidonet will have become a truly insane world. Point 3: Policy requires that an attempt be made at mediation. Mr. Kolin had been the democratically elected NC of Net250. Mr. Stein was a failed candidate for the NC position. Mr. Kolin's response to the issues was to provide service to the net by becoming NEC. Mr. Stein's response was to create a "new net" called IT-NET and to actively solicit net250 sysops to leave net250 to become part of this new net. When Mr. Stein did not convince a significant number of sysops to join, Stein filed his policy complaint. Mr. Johnston has a demonstrable conflict of interest with respect to adjudicating this complaint. Mr. Stein had FidoNews 11-49 Page: 11 05 Dec 1994 provided Mr. Johnston with a USENET feed at no cost to Mr. Johnston. The current NC of net250 refuses to provide the same service to Mr. Johnston. It has been apparent that both Mr. Johnston's and Mr. Stein's motivations in this matter have had very little to do with a technical breach of policy, but rather installing or removing favourable people to admin positions in net250. Point 4: Mr. Johnston's findings of fact are stretching the envelope in terms of what any fair minded individual would call "evidence". Mr. Johnston, in his appeal decision makes the following statement: " Additionally, anyone familiar with the workings of the nodelist processing/generating program MakeNL will know that MakeNL will only submit a nodelist segment when changes have been made to the control and/or input files." This would almost makes sense were it not written by someone who has consistently fouled up the nodediff submissions, been incapable of distributing the regional nodediff or Fidonews. Mr. Johnston's technical abilities in this regard are so abysmal that the nodediffs are distributed in Region 12 through the REC chain, and Fidonews is distributed on an ad hoc basis by interested parties. Clearly, Mr. Johnston cannot, with a straight face, count himself among those "familiar with the workings of the nodelist processing/generating program." Mr. Johnston claims that he received a bogus nodediff submission from a node flying a "250/0" address. Mr. Johnston has been either unable or unwilling to actually produce the alleged bogus nodediff submission. Mr. Johnston acknowledges that he used neither session passwords nor changed the net250 nodediff file name despite being asked to do so. Mr. Johnston's appeal then goes on to make reference to a series of log files. In one case, the log files are provided by Mr. Johnston himself. (It is fascinating that Mr. Johnston is able to produce *these* log files, yet has been unable to provide log files when he has made the erroneous assertion that he did not receive nodediff submissions from other nets.) Mr. Johnston also refers to another set of log files and he identifies them as having been provided, *not* by Mr. Kolin, but by Mr. Stein. No one in their right mind would accept this form of third hand evidence. It is the height of irony when Mr. Johnston goes on to assert that he has discovered evidence that the log files had been "doctored" but then leapt to the insupportable conclusion that these files which passed through the hands FidoNews 11-49 Page: 12 05 Dec 1994 of Mr. Stein were "doctored" by Mr. Kolin. If they were doctored at all (which I will dispute in the next paragraph) one would have to have a peculiar blindness to the rules of evidence and logic to accept that they were doctored by Kolin. Mr. Johnston is close to correct in saying "Given that one of the three files submitted by Mr. Kolin has been blatantly tampered with, I feel that it is reasonable to conclude that none of the three files can be taken at face value, and so should be discarded." More accurately, he should have characterized the three files as having been submitted by Mr. Stein who alleged that they were from Mr. Kolin, but quibbling aside; Mr. Johnston finds that the files have no merit. Fair enough... but for Mr. Johnston to then follow with an assertion that the case has been proved against Mr. Kolin defies his own logic. In Mr. Stein's complaint, he makes much of various system clock timing discrepancies between Mr. Kolin and Mr. Johnston's system. Mr. Stein's scientific (cough) method was to call both systems at least a month after the alleged nodediff submission. By Mr. Johnston's own account (attending one of his lame explanations for why he'd screwed up the nodediff submission yet again) her asserted that his system had crashed which surely must have attended a reboot at least once. The argument raised by Stein of a system timing variance is nonsensical and would barely have any credence had his tests been conducted on the day of the alleged nodediff submission. Mr. Johnston relies upon a perceived timing difference of less than two minutes to assert that the files were doctored. (Just as a humorous exercise, it'd be a safe bet that the same test applied to 75% of the files on Mr. Johnston's system would probably generate the horrific result that most of his files were "doctored" in similar fashion.) Point 5: Mr. Stein's appeal request was a two sentence message stating that he would like to appeal the NC's decision. Surely the person whose appeal is being heard at the RC's level is entitled to know the grounds for the appeal request before being required to respond. Mr. Johnston's Kafkaesque insistence that Mr. Kolin provide a response to an appeal, before being given the reasons for the appeal is a travesty of natural justice. Mr. Kolin, quite correctly, asked for the grounds for the appeal and was refused by Mr. Johnston. Point 6: Where's the beef? By the admission of all parties, there was no harm done to either Mr. Stein or to Fidonet. Mr. Stein would have been blissfully unaware that *anything* had happened had he not been fed with material by Mr. Johnston. The bogus nodediff was not processed by Mr. Johnston's FidoNews 11-49 Page: 13 05 Dec 1994 system so it did not propagate any errors or changes into the nodelist. Mr. Stein's claim to be affected by the bogus nodediff submission is absurd. Conclusion: Please uphold the original policy complaint decision rendered by James Korolas, NC250, and remind Mssrs Stein and Johnston that policy wasn't invented so that childish jihads could be conducted against those they happen to dislike. Stein Vs. Kolin Decision posted by James Korolas, NC250 In adjudicating a Policy Complaint filed by one sysop against another, the first determination must be an analysis of whether the act of filing such a complaint represents prima facie evidence of "being too easily annoyed" on the part of the complainant. The purpose of the policy complaint mechanism is to address legitimate instances where actions of a sysop detrimentally effect the operations of Fidonet. It was not meant to provide the means for litigious sysops to ask for punishments to be meted out for trivial reasons. In that respect, any policy complaint must be judged as a double-edged sword. If the issues raised are determined to be motivated for less sanguine reasons than any possible effect of the action being complained against, then there is a case to be made that the problem lies with the complainant. In this instance Matthew Stein has raised one issue in particular, and several other issues for which he omitted any supporting documentation. In the latter category, the allegations of theft leveled against Luke Kolin seem particularly dangerous should there be no support for this assertion and may be a matter more appropriately litigated in a formal court action. The issue raised by Matthew Stein is the assertion that Luke Kolin submitted a nodediff segment to the RC when he was not authorized to do so. No evidence was supplied which indicated that there was any injury to either Matthew Stein nor to Fidonet in general. No direct evidence is supplied that Luke did, in fact, submit the nodediff segment. The supplied material relies on inferential assumptions about the "possibility" of the act, but does not prove the act. No comment was offered as to why the RC would have viewed the security of the nodediff segment submission to be of such low importance as to have caused him (the RC) to avoid implementing elementary security precautions. Parenthetically, it is unusual and entirely inappropriate that the current RC has been issuing sub judice opinions on FidoNews 11-49 Page: 14 05 Dec 1994 this matter in advance of this complaint being appealed. If it is the RC's intention to breach the agreements which he was involved in negotiating, then at a minimum he should have joined himself to this action and removed himself as the appellant adjudicator. Absent from Matthew Stein's policy complaint was the fact that the issues raised had already been the subject of negotiated agreements, several of which had involved Mr. Stein in the first instance. It is readily apparent that Mr. Stein, having agreed to a negotiated settlement in his capacity as Co-NC of the net, is now asking to revisit the issue in his capacity as a nodelisted sysop. Mr. Stein's persistence in this matter provides a clue as to his capacity to remain "too easily annoyed." Had there been any direct evidence that Mr. Kolin submitted the nodediff segment, I would have apportioned responsibility equally to the cavilier security controls of the RC and to Mr. Kolin. Further, I would have found the matter required a remedy in terms of nodediff security, but no banishment from the nodelist for Mr. Kolin. As to Mr. Stein having launched the complaint, I find his actions to be perilously close to being "too easily annoyed" but not quite extreme enough to require any sanctions. There is no doubt that Mr. Stein's disenchantment with Mr. Kolin is manifest, but the purpose of Fidonet policy complaints is not to adjudicate social interactions. Complaint dismissed. Wed 26 Oct 94 23:16 Rcvd: Fri 28 Oct 13:38 By: Rick Johnston, Net 229 Echo Coordinator (HST * Original to: Luke Kolin (1:250/714) RE: The Appeal submitted by Matthew Stein, with respect to the ruling issued by James Korolas (N250C) in the matter of the Policy Complaint filed by Matthew Stein against Luke Kolin Basis of the Complaint: In Mr. Stein's complaint, his major point is that Mr. Kolin has proven himself a "menace" to FidoNet by his actions in submitting a nodelist segment for Net 250 while he was not in the office of Net Coordinator. Mr. Stein has mentioned other incidents as well, however they do not pertain to the matter at hand. Supporting Documentation to the Complaint: Mr. Stein has included samples from the log files of FidoNews 11-49 Page: 15 05 Dec 1994 both Mr. Kolin, and of the RC to whom the nodelist segment was delivered. The nodelist segments from the Regional Coordinator clearly show Mr. Kolin's system in a connection, presenting the 1:250/0 address as an AKA, and delivering a file named the same as the Net 250 nodelist segment at the time. An examination of Mr. Kolin's logs for the same time period do not show this connection, nor any actions that would cause the nodelist segment to be generated or delivered. However, further examination of the logs supplied by Mr. Kolin to Mr. Stein, who was the nodelisted Coordinator of Net 250 at the time, show an inconsistency in that one of the logs has record of activities taking place after the date and time stamp on the file itself. Based on this, it seems obvious to me that this log file has been edited. Given that one of the three files submitted by Mr. Kolin has been blatantly tampered with, I feel that it is reasonable to conclude that none of the three files can be taken at face value, and so should be discarded. Additionally, anyone familiar with the workings of the nodelist processing/generating program MakeNL will know that MakeNL will only submit a nodelist segment when changes have been made to the control and/or input files. Thus I will grant the possibility that this may have been an automatic event that Mr. Kolin accidentally left in his system batch files. However, given that a nodelist segment was submitted, this shows that Mr. Kolin willfully edited the control and/or input files he had on hand for the Net 250 nodelist segment and caused a submission to be created. In his ruling, Mr. Korolas stated that he would equally blame the RC for failing to establish a session password. However, at the time Mr. Korolas was "Co-Acting NC" of Net 250, using a nodelist address of 1:250/1. Included in his duties was the maintenance of the nodelist segment for the net. Although there wasn't a session password in place for Mr. Korolas at the time, this would not have prevented Mr. Kolin from submitting his segment as the addresses used are not the same and the password would not have prevented Mr. Kolin from connecting and delivering his segment. Documentation for the Defence of Mr. Kolin: Upon receipt of Mr. Stein's request for an appeal in this Complaint, I immediately forwarded a netmail message to Mr. Korolas, with copies to both Mr. Stein and Mr. Kolin, requesting all information that he had received from the two parties to this Complaint. This message was sent to him on September 30th and his reply, dated for October 2nd, stated that he would not forward this information until he had received Mr. Stein's grounds for appeal. FidoNews 11-49 Page: 16 05 Dec 1994 To quote briefly from FidoNet Policy: - - - - begin quote - - - - 9.5 Appeal Process A decision made by a coordinator may be appealed to the next level. Appeals must be made within two weeks of the decision which is being appealed. All appeals must follow the chain of command; if levels are skipped the appeal will be dismissed out of hand. An appeal will not result in a full investigation, but will be based upon the documentation supplied by the parties at the lower level. For example, an appeal of a Network Coordinator's decision will be decided by the Regional Coordinator based upon information provided by the coordinator and the sysop involved; the Regional Coordinator is not expected to make an independent attempt to gather information. - - - - end quote - - - - Under Policy, Mr. Korolas is required to forward any information he had pertaining to the Complaint in question. On October 10th, I spoke to Mr. Kolin in a telephone call and advised him that Mr. Korolas had still not supplied the requested information, despite an additional reminder (also CC'd to Mr. Kolin and Mr. Stein) sent to him on October 3rd. At that time, I requested that Mr. Kolin forward a copy of what he had submitted to Mr. Korolas in his defence to be forwarded to me before the following weekend (October 15th) so that I might proceed with a ruling. I finally received a message from Mr. Kolin on the Sunday evening, which perported to be a copy of what had been submitted to Mr. Korolas. Although this may not be pertinent to the complaint process, it is my opinion that this "statement" was created by Mr. Kolin expressly for my benefit and that the real reason that Mr. Korolas did not forward the requested information was because he did not have anything to forward. This is partly based on Mr. Korolas's continued refusal to cooperate with my request despite the requirement in Policy that he do so, and partly on a statement made by Mr. Kolin in the 'copy' he forwarded to me, namely "However, I have not been provided with this information, and therefore have been unable to prepare a suitable defense.", given that both Mr. Korolas and Mr. Kolin repeatedly demanded to know Mr. Stein's 'grounds for appeal' prior to providing any information on Mr. Kolin's defence. In response to some of the points in Mr. Kolin's statement: 1) He has pointed out that he was re-admitted to Fido, despite theknowledge of the incident of myself, as RC, Mr. Stein, as nodelisted NC, and Mr. Korolas, nodelisted Co-NC. FidoNews 11-49 Page: 17 05 Dec 1994 At the time, it was pointed out that proper proceedure had not been followed in Mr. Kolin's removal from the nodelist, in that he was denied a chance to appeal his excommunication. His return to the nodelist was to correct for that unjust denial of appeal opportunity, and the matter of the nodelist submission was not considered "closed" by that action. 2) He suggests that he cannot be 'punished' for actions committed while he was not a member of FidoNet. In that, he may be correct. However, he was not removed from the nodelist until after the discovery of his false nodelist submission. Although he did not forward his log files to Mr. Stein until after his removal, he was still a FidoNet member at the time of the offence, and so is responsible for his actions. In conclusion, based on the technical evidence supplied, it is clear that Mr. Kolin did submit a nodelist segment for Net 250 while not in the office of Net Coordinator, presumably with malicious intent. As such, I hereby reverse the ruling issued by Mr. Korolas, and rule in the favour of Mr. Stein. For his actions in attempting to disrupt the workings of the Net, Mr. Luke Kolin is hereby excommunicated from FidoNet for a period of not less that one year. If at some point in the future Mr. Kolin should re-apply for FidoNet membership, it will be at the descretion of the Net Coordinator for his geographic area who will consult with, and obtain the agreement of, the Regional Coordinator prior to issuing him a node number. In addition, Mr. Kolin is not to be granted any position of authority or responsibility within FidoNet including, but not limited to, *C, *EC or Hub. This excommunication will become effective within two weeks of the date of this ruling, provided there is no appeal filed on this ruling, or after all avenues of appeal have been exhausted. Rick Johnston Region 12 Coordinator Dated: October 26, 1994 FidoNews 11-49 Page: 18 05 Dec 1994 Fidonews for the Blind Rude? Not yet. =============== In Fidonews 1147, Jesse Tharin of 1:300/7, is complaining about the way Fidonews is formatted. I must be one of those six people in the whole world that actually prints Fidonews (omigosh) on a dot matrix printer. I prefer it this way, it's been this way forever, I am not alone. I also made a few calls and have determined that there are a LOT more than just six people printing out this issue right now. Sometimes there are as many as twenty or thirty readers printing out the Fidonews during any given week. So with that, let me get to the point. If Jesse wants an issue for the blind, I mean that is how he ends his article, then I would like to invite him to create and distribute a Fidonews issue specifically for the blind. I'm sure that since this would be such a heart warming endeavor, the editors would have no problem in allowing him to do this. If he really cares about this issue, he'll quit bitching and do something about it. I say leave the boilerplate, leave the ASCII art, and under no circumstances should the Doggie be removed. BTW, where can I get a copy of BOGUS? Dash Riprock - Net 231 Amateur Gynocologist - 1:231/30 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- In Consideration of Others Article Title : In Consideration of Others Article Date : November 29, 1994 Submitted By : Robert Byrd @ 1:221/950.0 Hello Snooze Editors! Fine weather to you and yours. Things are just dandy up Listowel way with only the occasional tractor trailer sliding into the side of the building due to icy road conditions. I noted with interest the situation brought to light by Jesse Tharin a few issues back; that of the ungainly screen formatting of the Snooze. I think that Mr Tharin raises a good point. For people who rely upon a text reader, the Snooze is no doubt an exercise in exasperation. The ASCII art and copious use of periods in the Table of Contents, the hyphens in the Masthead and between articles only make for a situation that must be almost unbearable for those people. As a person who has _never_ printed an issue of the Snooze on a printer, I personally find the the page formatting to be a blemish on the screen. Of course, I am also the kind of person who would not start a new article only eight lines from the bottom of the printed page. FidoNews 11-49 Page: 19 05 Dec 1994 While I can appreciate that the Editor-beings are also Worker-beings in their real lives, I was somewhat put off be the seemingly cavalier attitude displayed by them in the Editorial of issue no. 47. I think it is time that the Snooze moved forward in its life. Admit that almost _no_ one ever prints the Snooze and implement a consistent method of formatting for screen reading. As a sidebar, I myself do not see ascii art as being Haiku : "the Japanese verse form consisting of three lines of five, seven, and five syllables respectively" (from the Gage Canadian Dictionary). While I admit to laughing long and loud at some of the various artwork I have come across in FidoNet, I would not consider it to be Haiku. And... I don't think the Snooze would suffer from the lack of it. Thank you for your time and pet the cats for me. Respectfully, Robert Byrd ---------------------------------------------------------------------- A chat with our resigning FidoNet Z6C, Mr. Honlin Lue forwarded via: 6:700/703 available for FREQ: z6c_chat.zip S: SysOp H: Honlin S: Honlin, thanks for coming to chat with us. It is our great pleasure to meet you here. :-) Umm... may we know why you want to resign from the post of Z6C...? Too much sacrifice..? If you were given a chance again, would you still take it up...? H: It won't take you too much time to be the Z6C. So, no sacrifice at all. 4 years ago, the Asian Regions, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan and the newly established Japan, still belonged to Zone 3. They were in fact mature enough to become an independent zone. However, as the fee for inter-countries IDD call in Asian Regions was the most expensive compared with those in Europe, USA and Australia, the condition for developing such a kind of IDD based BBS Network was still the poorest here. Nevertheless, we do have our unique cultural background which is totally different from those in USA and Europe, although we speak English also. To let our friends in USA and Europe understand the "face" issue (which is very important amongst Chinese or people affected by the Han-culture), feudal, elitist and non-democratic thinking deeply implanted in Asians...... It cannot be explained in a few words. FidoNews 11-49 Page: 20 05 Dec 1994 Factors such as cultural, racial, geographical, lingual and living habit...etc, together with our status as a developing economy, were assuring us that we had the condition to become an independent zone. In view of this, I consulted the 4 RCs in the Asian Regions and got the approval of Bill Bolton and Matt Wheal in Zone 3. At last we had our independent Zone 6. The reasons for establishing Zone 6: the environmental factors were telling us that we should be independent, and we wished we could help develop Fidonet in Asian Regions with the establishment of Zone 6. There was nothing to do with whether I wanted to be the ZC or not. Therefore, if you ask me whether I want Zone 6 to be independent if another chance is given, I still think so. However, whether I will take up the post of Z6C, as this was not the issue I concerned at that moment, I cannot answer this even now. Why resign? It has been 4 years since Zone 6 becomes independent with my effort. Its rate of development is the highest amongst other zones in the world. I have been the ZC for 4 years already. I believe that a position should not be held by a person for too long. As the ZC, my term of service is 4 years and is the longest in Fidonet. I should not hold this position again. Moreover, there are many inter-countries projects in Zone 6 pending to be implemented. I hope this can be achieved by another friend here who has a stronger language ability. S: What an open ZC you are! It is our luck to have you in Fidonet. But we do feel regret about your resignation! (Sighing...) Well... then why do you adopt democratic election for this post? Why don't you adopt appointment? H: Policy 4 has clearly stated: ZC is elected by RCs. S: I see. Umm... we really hope we can have a good ZC like you in the future. What quality do you think is important for a good ZC...? H: Should have a thorough understanding of Democracy and Rule-of-Law... And adequate language ability. S: To be a good ZC is not easy... Having been the Z6C for years, anything impressed you most? Or made you regret...? H: Yes, of course... We had regions like Singapore, Indonesia, Hong Kong and Macau, etc before 1988. The Network in Taiwan Region came into being in April, 1988. It joined Zone 3 of Fidonet on May 16, 1988. Besides, it took me more than a FidoNews 11-49 Page: 21 05 Dec 1994 year's IDD call to Japan to deliver the program in 2400 BPS in order to help them establish Japan Region on January 26, 1990. Zone 6 was established on November 2, 1990. Two years after, we had applications from Philippines and Korea. To develop BBS in Asia, I had been to Shanghai, China with Samson Luk (R61C) to help the BBS in China Region to develop its network. BBS sysops in Asians Regions had met in Taipei, Taichung, Seoul and Tokyo successively in 5 SysOp's conferences. All these stages are very impressive. Umm... for the regrettable experience... I think it's my inadequacy in English language. Also, I have been longing to link up every Region in Asia via Internet to establish the Z6 Backbone. But this project has not been launched successfully yet. :-) S: Hope this will come true one day... Thank you very much and wish you every success in all your future endeavour! H: Thanks! :-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======================================================================== Fidonews Information ======================================================================== ------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION ---------------- Editors: Donald Tees, Sylvia Maxwell Editors Emeritii: Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell, Vince Perriello, Tim Pozar Tom Jennings "FidoNews" BBS FidoNet 1:1/23 BBS +1-519-570-4176, 300/1200/2400/14400/V.32bis/HST(DS) more addresses: Rev. Richard Visage -- 1:163/409 Don -- 1:221/192, don@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca Tim -- pozar@kumr.lns.com (Postal Service mailing address) FidoNews 128 Church St. Kitchener, Ontario Canada N2H 2S4 voice: (519) 570-3137 FidoNews 11-49 Page: 22 05 Dec 1994 Fidonews is published weekly by and for the members of the FIDONET INTERNATIONAL AMATEUR ELECTRONIC MAIL system. It is a compilation of individual articles contributed by their authors or their authorized agents. The contribution of articles to this compilation does not diminish the rights of the authors. Opinions expressed in these articles are those of the authors and not necessarily those of FidoNews. Authors retain copyright on individual works; otherwise FidoNews is Copyright 1994 Sylvia Maxwell. All rights reserved. Duplication and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only. For use in other circumstances, please contact the original authors, or the eds. Articles by Madam emilia may be retransmitted freely through cyber-space. OBTAINING COPIES: The most recent issue of FidoNews in electronic form may be obtained from the FidoNews BBS via manual download or Wazoo FileRequest, or from various sites in the FidoNet and Internet. PRINTED COPIES may be obtained by sending SASE to the above paper-mail address, or trade for copy of your 'zine. INTERNET USERS: FidoNews is available via FTP from ftp.fidonet.org, in directory ~ftp/pub/fidonet/fidonews. Anyone interested in getting a copy of the INTERNET GATEWAY FAQ may freq GISFAQ.ZIP from 1:133/411.0, or send an internet message to fidofaq@gisatl.fidonet.org. No message or text or subject is necessary. The address is a keyword that will trigger the automated response. People wishing to send inquiries directly to David Deitch should now mail to fidonet@gisatl.fidonet.org rather than the previously listed address. SUBMISSIONS: You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in FidoNews. Article submission requirements are contained in the file ARTSPEC.DOC, available from the FidoNews BBS, or Wazoo filerequestable from 1:1/23 as file "ARTSPEC.DOC". Please read it. "Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered trademarks of Tom Jennings, and are used with permission. "the pulse of the cursor is the heartbeat of fidonet"... -- END ----------------------------------------------------------------------