F I D O N E W S -- Vol.10 No.44 (31-Oct-1993) +----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | A newsletter of the | | | FidoNet BBS community | Published by: | | _ | | | / \ | "FidoNews" BBS | | /|oo \ | +1-519-570-4176 1:1/23 | | (_| /_) | | | _`@/_ \ _ | Editors: | | | | \ \\ | Sylvia Maxwell 1:221/194 | | | (*) | \ )) | Donald Tees 1:221/192 | | |__U__| / \// | Tim Pozar 1:125/555 | | _//|| _\ / | | | (_/(_|(____/ | | | (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. | | | -- JOSEPH PULITZER | +----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | Submission address: editors 1:1/23 | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Internet addresses: | | | | Sylvia -- max@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca | | Donald -- donald@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca | | Tim -- pozar@kumr.lns.com | | Both Don & Sylvia (submission address) | | editor@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | For information, copyrights, article submissions, | | obtaining copies and other boring but important details, | | please refer to the end of this file. | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ======================================================================== Table of Contents ======================================================================== 1. Editorial..................................................... 1 2. Articles...................................................... 2 Intolerance and FIDOnet..................................... 2 For the Record.............................................. 3 Servants or tyrants?........................................ 5 The Spirit of Fidonet is crying............................. 7 Portrait of an RC........................................... 7 AURORA...................................................... 10 3. Fidonews Information.......................................... 11 ======================================================================== Editorial ======================================================================== FidoNews 10-44 Page: 2 31 Oct 1993 Another week, another snooze. We have been moving all week, and I cannot say that I like it much. A month's overlap in the two residences takes some of the pressure off, but drags it out as well. Some of our books are still not unpacked from our last move. There are a couple of articles from England that week that point out the continuing problems of Fido administration. That fine balamce between people who are willing to run things and people who want to run things is particularly elusive. We're in a hurry, we have to get this out the wire, so... ======================================================================== Articles ======================================================================== Intolerance and FIDOnet Gregory Woodbury wolfe@wolves.durham.nc.us I've been reading FIDONews for a long time (about 6 years now) and I am constantly suprized at how much tolerance and intolerance are shown in the articles that are printed. Tom Jennings held his temper a lot, and some things that he passed were, I am sure, personally painful for him to publish. I am extremely glad that you are continuing his "publish nearly everything" policy. Steve Winter's latest broadside against "sodomites" and the original "Home Schooling Echo" is merely the latest in a whole series of actions that the whole net has been subjected to by Mr. Winter. Steve Winter and the "PRIME Network" and his "Pre-Rapture BBS" here in Durham NC are quite (in)famous, and he has been suspended from FIDOnet on more than one occasion for both technical violations and XAB. In addition, Mr. Winter abuses the local FIDO/Usenet gateway by sending commercial messages through it on a regular basis, when the Usenet side operator has constantly asked for limits on commercial use. It is fortunate for Mr. Winter that others are more tolerant than he is willing to be. If we were to emulate his behaviour, he would be out in the cold, and not a part of any network. FidoNews 10-44 Page: 3 31 Oct 1993 For the Record David Cupp 1:2215/150.2 First of all and for the record, I would like to make it known that I never said I was out to get Flame Removed from the FidoNet Backbone! That was Not And Is Not My Intention! The following was written before several messages were sent between my SysOp and the Flame Moderator. However, it now appears, my original concerns have been shunted. I feel this is an issue that must be dealt with. ================================================================ * * It's ok to have Minors On Flame.. * * That's right! At least that seems to be the case! But, don't you dare challenge this issue on Flame. That is, unless you want your feed cut. Is it normal for a Moderator to ignore policy4, so he/she can keep this issue mute? I am a father of two children and have a protective place in my heart for them. When I began reading the contents of Flame, I at first thought it was a bunch of kids using the echo as an adult equivalent! That's what it sounded like to me! I posted the following message on Flame.. > What gives here! > > I can't believe this echo is part of FidoNet.. > > It appears that this echo is nothing more than an excuse for > foul mouthed teens and children, who want to use FidoNet as > an Adult Equivalent Echo for Minors.. > I for one can't understand how this has happened and why it > has been permitted to continue.. > I thought that Flame was for legitimate, heated discussion, > between two or more persons, which was not permitted on regular > echos.. The place to go when you have a bitch, gripe or other > type of complaint.. > I could be wrong with this line of thinking, however, I know > that it should NOT be used as it's being used now! I admit this message may have been a bit harsh but in my eyes it was true.. Boy, I still can't believe the replies I got back! And I won't repeat them here! Of course, when the Flame Moderator read this he was furious! Needless to say, my feed was cut! Sorry, but this doesn't sound like policy4 to me! Well, I guess if a Moderator doesn't like what he sees on his echo, he can warn you and cut your feed all in one blow! Yep, that's right, that's exactly what happened! FidoNews 10-44 Page: 4 31 Oct 1993 At first, I didn't want to be removed like that because it gave him total power without question. After re-thinking this situation, I've concluded, since I didn't really want to be a part of Flame anyway, there was no real reason to pursue this.. It's been a few weeks now and thanks to the tremendous efforts of my SysOp and NC my access to Flame has been restored.. Not that anything good could ever come out of me posting there (which I won't)! However, there is an issue that needs to be dealt with by FidoNet Officials.. In a couple of the replies I received, it was stated (and I have most of them on paper), there are indeed minors on Flame! If *I* wanted access to an Adult board, I would have to show proof of age! With the language used on Flame, I believe this echo should be available only to consenting adults with proof of age. I know that if I came home from work, turned on the computer and discovered that my child had been accessing this kind of echo without my consent, someone could soon be in court. I was glad to hear that this echo is only available to adults at my end, but what about all the others? FidoNet is Massive! I would like to see measures taken to insure that only Adults and those with Parental or Guardian Consent are found on this "R" rated Flame echo! I know there is someone, somewhere reading this that thinks I'm just out to cause trouble. If you asked someone who knows me, you'll find that just isn't my way.. David Cupp ================================================================ After careful consideration, I do admit, the statements I made were harsh and if I could I would take most of it back. As a father of two girls, I was and still am concerned about minors being allowed on Flame. Obviously the Flame Moderator mistook this as a threat. I can see his position now as to why he pulled my feed to flame, but will never understand his reason for warning me not to post along the lines which I was posting, then pulling my feed before I had a chance to reply to his message. It has been stated to me by the Flame Moderator (John Clifton) that my concern is misplaced. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- JC> I teach school and I can assure you that what a student JC> hears in the hallways EVERY DAY makes this echo look like JC> Disneyland. JC> As for you being concerned, I think your concern is misplaced. JC> Oprah, Sally, Geraldo and Donahue are more readily accessible JC> to children and that should be far more worrisome to you. JC> John Clifton 1:153/6.4 JC> FLAME Moderator FidoNews 10-44 Page: 5 31 Oct 1993 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sorry John, I just don't see it that way. The children I teach are my own and they will learn and respect the English Language rather than Slang! (Street) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Area: Flame! Msg#: 1345 From: John Clifton To: Mikey Subj: BULLSHIT!!!! > FLAME is a tradition and is the only echo specifically > mentioned in a Policy document. It is unrefutable and has a > traceable lineage that precedes all but a few of the current > power structure(s). JC> This is why I worked to keep FLAME alive when all hell broke JC> loose last Spring. It *is* a tradition and shouldn't be snuffed. JC> BTW, the Censors have never sent me any guidelines for modeating JC> the echo. I'd like to see 'em try to get rid of FLAME under the JC> circumstances. JC> ! Origin: Basic'ly John's Point, Langley, B.C. (1:153/6.4) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- If Flame is in Policy4, I can't find it! And believe me, I tried! I did a word search of Policy4 on Flame, Sex, Minor, Adult and Child! Not one of these words exists in this document. As the content of Flame is harsh (or, "a tradition", as stated above by Flame Regulars), I believe it should be given an Adult "R" Rating! This would limit Flame access to Adults! Any minors wishing access to Flame would have to have a consent form filled out by a parent or legal guardian which conveys The Content of Flame as Adult.. Sincerely Yours: David Cupp ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Servants or tyrants? Policy and *Cs, servants or tyrants? by John Burden 2:255/112 It may not have escaped the attention of the rest of Fidonet that zone 2 has been experiencing some "local difficulties" as a result of decisions reached by the Z2C and handed down to his FidoNews 10-44 Page: 6 31 Oct 1993 RCs to carry out. As a result, there has been turmoil in Germany and also now in the UK. The excuse is that "policy requires it". Such an attitude turns policy into a convenient tyrant to hide behind when in fact it should be the servant, the enabler, of the network. More than anything else, the inflexible, intolerant and undemocratic implementation of policy, WHEN IT SUITS THE *Cs CONCERNED, makes them into tyrants as well. It is the defence used by those who sent millions of men, women and children to their deaths in the concentration camps and gas chambers, that they were only obeying orders. Humbug! In the UK, it has been decreed that there will be a grand shake-up, relocating nodes from one net to another. There is no rationale for this other than "policy requires it". Not even the advocates of the so- called geo-net shake-up have been able to produce any evidence to show that the existing way of operating failed to work and work well. It has always been my understanding that POLICY exists to ease communication between systems. Instead, it is used in Europe as an instrument of oppression. We are told by the UK RC that a formal request for exemption from any geo-net requirements has lain on the desk of the (now resigned) IC for more than 4 months. In the meantime, instead of waiting for this request to be dealt with, the enforced transfer of sysops continues unabated. Anyone who resists an imminent move is given a simple choice - move or lose your nodelisting! What has Fidonet become when the co-ordinators will not listen to the wishes of the majority and instead act like dictators? More to the point, what will it become next? There have been several requests from region25 sysops for a free vote to be taken on this issue, with both sides bound to accept the democratic decision, but these have been ignored by the RC. Instead, the region is splintering into different camps camps with the creation of two "Classic" region25 nodelists, one established by existing *Cs, the other by "grunt" sysops (more power to their elbows). The regional co-ordinator (supposedly the top man in Fidonet in the UK) abuses his position and the region daily. Among his latest diatribes in the PUBLIC Region25 echo conference is the following. This was sent to the person democraticly elected as NC for net 258 after both the RC and the ZC declined to accept the result of the vote. ................................................. "AAAhhhh!.. yes say the sweetest things ..... I have allready told you in repsonce to where you said i was an "asshole" ( your words, for someone that claims he is a born again christain, did the halo slip for a second ? ) that I am the biggest shit FidoNews 10-44 Page: 7 31 Oct 1993 shoveller in the world, proberlly the biggest wanker and also a fucking BIG asshole... You have the netmail I sent you, prehaps you would care to make it public..... ................................................. Then our RC wonders why respect for him and for his position within Fidonet is falling away! The question is, apart from joining one of the "Classic" breakaways or resigning, what other options exist for the vast majority of sysops in the UK who are totally sick and tired of what is going on and simply wish to be allowed to continue their hobby without needless and petty tyranny? How much more has to be gone through before those in leading positions within Fidonet internationally decide that enough is enough and call a halt to the abuse of this region? John Burden 2:255/112 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The Spirit of Fidonet is crying. Tony Dunlap, 1:2220/30 Part 1, Public Key Cryptography Public Key Cryptography? Why? Anything so sensitive or important as to require this type of security has no buisness in echomail, even clear signed messages. Why not? It serves no purpose for 99.99% of the readers of an echo. And just how much would this cost us, who pay long distance charges to transfer the echoes around the world? Using the example provided by Mr. Riddle, (Fnews 1042) I came up with 315 bytes extra per message. Using my rather modest average of 300 messages per day that comes to 94,500 bytes extra per day (That would be an increase in my packet sizes of over 25%. How many Sysops would like that?). And that's not including extra messages produced by people posting their public keys. We live with an occasional grunged message. We live with spurious dupes. Why can't we live with less than 100% guarantee of authenticity? Eventually the software will evolve to handle all three problems to a very high degree. I, personally, can wait... Stay tuned for "The Spirit of Fidonet is Crying", Part 2, The (fill in the blank)-Mongers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Portrait of an RC Nick Reid (1:253/159) FidoNews 10-44 Page: 8 31 Oct 1993 Howdy Folks! It's that time of year again, when we take our expensive microphones and video gear to roam the quieter backwaters of the known universe in search of quaint fillers to show you while Bryant hits the john. Today we find ourselves in England. Not much happens in England that an amazing character here does not try to control. Peter Burnett, Regional Co-ordinator of FidoNet in the UK, is a simple, earthy man, with a twinkle in his eye and a direct and friendly manner. Fully committed to exerting and extending the authority of the *Cs at the instigation of, and in full collusion with, his manipulative buddy the Zone 3 Co-ordinator (so sue me Ronbo) he is cleaning up FidoNet throughout this land by assiduously seeing-off all who are making a real mess through gross negligence of their FidoDuty to lick his butt. Here, in a series of sound bites from only one day's Regional echo is a portrait of this remarkable and dedicated promoter of FidoNet ideals. To: Mark Matts Message #: 6991 From: Peter Burnett Submitted: 26 Oct 93 07:09:00 Subject: *** ZMH CHANGE *** Status: Public Received: No Group: REGION25 (25) MSGID: 2:441/80 2cccdbbf <...> B - O - L - L - O - C - K - S T - O Y - O - U --- GoldED 2.41+0024UK1/D'Bridge v1.54/002129 * Origin: Popper's & TNX, Hastings, UK | HST/V32 | <...> (2:441/80) To: Kevin Grumball Message #: 7000 From: Peter Burnett Submitted: 26 Oct 93 13:37:00 Subject: Classic Status: Public Received: No Group: REGION25 (25) MSGID: 2:441/80.1 2ccd29a1 KG> Oh, and by the way, some "despot down KG> south" (Peter Burnett) *will* tell you what net to join :-( AAAhhhh!.. yes say the sweetest things ..... I have allready told you in repsonce to where you said i was an "asshole" ( your words, for someone that claims he is a born again christain, did the halo slip for a second ? ) that I am the biggest shit shoveller in the world, proberlly the biggest wanker and also a fucking BIG asshole... You have the netmail I sent you, prehaps you would care to make it public..... Now exactly when are you going to tell me something new ? FidoNews 10-44 Page: 9 31 Oct 1993 --- XRS/386 5.1+ via XCS 1.10 * Origin: Point Operations at The Neverland eXpress (2:441/80.1) To: Kevin Grumball Message #: 7001 From: Peter Burnett Submitted: 26 Oct 93 13:44:00 Subject: Brewery trip Status: Public Received: No Group: REGION25 (25) MSGID: 2:441/80.1 2ccd29c3 <...> Fuck off --- XRS/386 5.1+ via XCS 1.10 * Origin: Point Operations at The Neverland eXpress (2:441/80.1) To: Paul Dickie Message #: 7125 From: Peter Burnett Submitted: 27 Oct 93 10:21:00 Subject: Whats it all about? Status: Public Received: No Group: REGION25 (25) MSGID: 2:441/80.1 2cce4bc9 PD> Frank, you don't *need* to *prove* that you're arrogant. And you do not need to prove that YOU are an asshole ! Peter. --- XRS/386 5.1+ via XCS 1.10 * Origin: Point Operations at The Neverland eXpress (2:441/80.1) To: Ben Davis Message #: 7126 From: Peter Burnett Submitted: 27 Oct 93 10:23:00 Subject: Whats it all about? Status: Public Received: No Group: REGION25 (25) MSGID: 2:441/80.1 2cce4c74 <...> And you call Frank THICKHEADED... jezz man.. take a look in the fucking mirror and see what a wanker you are !... Peter. --- XRS/386 5.1+ via XCS 1.10 * Origin: Point Operations at The Neverland eXpress (2:441/80.1) To: Kevin Grumball Message #: 7128 From: Peter Burnett Submitted: 27 Oct 93 10:28:00 Subject: *** CLASS25.A?? *** Status: Public Received: No Group: REGION25 (25) FidoNews 10-44 Page: 10 31 Oct 1993 MSGID: 2:441/80.1 2cce4d7f >>> EH> Likewise, please ensure that 2:258/0, 2:258/2000, 2:258/23 >>> EH> and 2:258/24 are excluded from future editions. >>> Errm... *I'm* 258/0 now. > EH> Errr Kevin, you may believe that you are 258/0, that's fair > EH> enough. In practice though, I am still 258/0, as both the > EH> RC and the ZC now told you. KG> You are *NOT* 258/0 in the Classic nodelist. SO why dont you fuck off there with 2:258/1 and pull your entries from the fidonet.org published list. --- XRS/386 5.1+ via XCS 1.10 * Origin: Point Operations at The Neverland eXpress (2:441/80.1) To: Kevin Grumball Message #: 7130 From: Peter Burnett Submitted: 27 Oct 93 07:25:00 Subject: *** CLASS25.A?? *** Status: Public Received: No Group: REGION25 (25) MSGID: 2:441/80 2cce22b0 Hello Kevin! <...> KG> You are talking complete crap. You should know.. you are indeed full of shit!........ Peter --- GoldED 2.41+0024UK1/D'Bridge v1.54/002129 * Origin: Neverland eXpress | RC25 | Hst/V32 | <...>(2:441/80) Truly a fine example of rustic charm and a great approach to FidoNet. But our time here is up so, for now, this is your crew, somewhere in England, saying goodbye till next time we explore together the curious highways and byways of human nature in its natural habitat. And so it goes..... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AURORA Jerry Cain, 1:300/8 jcain@pimacc.pima.edu An echo to support the finest text/programmer's editor available The Aurora text editor is, simply put, the BEST! If you haven't tried FidoNews 10-44 Page: 11 31 Oct 1993 this editor, you're in for a real treat. File-request AUROR110.ZIP from 1:300/8 and step into the future of editing. We invite you to participate in the support echo which was created to support Aurora. The tag is AURORA and for now you'll have to poll 1:300/8 a couple times a week until we get enough participating systems to get it on the backbone. The author has promised to tune into the conference. Need more info? Here's a clip from its FILE_ID.FIZ: The Aurora Editor v1.1 is a beautiful new high performance text editor with a superb windowing environment, full mouse support, a huge 1 Gigabyte paged virtual memory using XMS/EMS/disk, object oriented macro language, multi instance programmable file manager, unlimited undo/redo, a 386 version, user definable menus, keyboard, and toolbar, text folding, binary edit, 16K max line length, shrinks to 1.2k, file scan, bookmarks, more! -Jerry Cain ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======================================================================== Fidonews Information ======================================================================== ------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION ---------------- Editors: Sylvia Maxwell, Donald Tees, Tim Pozar Editors Emeritii: Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell, Vince Perriello, Tom Jennings IMPORTANT NOTE: The FidoNet address of the FidoNews BBS has been changed!!! Please make a note of this. "FidoNews" BBS FidoNet 1:1/23 BBS +1-519-570-4176, 300/1200/2400/14400/V.32bis/HST(DS) Internet addresses: Don & Sylvia (submission address) editor@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca Sylvia -- max@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca Donald -- donald@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca Tim -- pozar@kumr.lns.com (Postal Service mailing address) (have extreme patience) FidoNews 172 Duke St. E. Kitchener, Ontario Canada FidoNews 10-44 Page: 12 31 Oct 1993 N2H 1A7 Published weekly by and for the members of the FidoNet international amateur electronic mail system. It is a compilation of individual articles contributed by their authors or their authorized agents. The contribution of articles to this compilation does not diminish the rights of the authors. Opinions expressed in these articles are those of the authors and not necessarily those of FidoNews. Authors retain copyright on individual works; otherwise FidoNews is copyright 1993 Sylvia Maxwell. All rights reserved. Duplication and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only. For use in other circumstances, please contact the original authors, or FidoNews (we're easy). OBTAINING COPIES: The-most-recent-issue-ONLY of FidoNews in electronic form may be obtained from the FidoNews BBS via manual download or Wazoo FileRequest, or from various sites in the FidoNet and Internet. PRINTED COPIES may be obtained from Fido Software for $10.00US each PostPaid First Class within North America, or $13.00US elsewhere, mailed Air Mail. (US funds drawn upon a US bank only.) INTERNET USERS: FidoNews is available via FTP from ftp.fidonet.org, in directory ~ftp/pub/fidonet/fidonews. If you have questions regarding FidoNet, please direct them to deitch@gisatl.fidonet.org, not the FidoNews BBS. (Be kind and patient; David Deitch is generously volunteering to handle FidoNet/Internet questions.) SUBMISSIONS: You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in FidoNews. Article submission requirements are contained in the file ARTSPEC.DOC, available from the FidoNews BBS, or Wazoo filerequestable from 1:1/23 as file "ARTSPEC.DOC". Please read it. "Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered trademarks of Tom Jennings, and are used with permission. Asked what he thought of Western civilization, M.K. Gandhi said, "I think it would be an excellent idea". -- END ----------------------------------------------------------------------