F I D O N E W S -- Vol.10 No.43 (24-Oct-1993) +----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | A newsletter of the | | | FidoNet BBS community | Published by: | | _ | | | / \ | "FidoNews" BBS | | /|oo \ | +1-519-570-4176 1:1/23 | | (_| /_) | | | _`@/_ \ _ | Editors: | | | | \ \\ | Sylvia Maxwell 1:221/194 | | | (*) | \ )) | Donald Tees 1:221/192 | | |__U__| / \// | Tim Pozar 1:125/555 | | _//|| _\ / | | | (_/(_|(____/ | | | (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. | | | -- JOSEPH PULITZER | +----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | Submission address: editors 1:1/23 | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Internet addresses: | | | | Sylvia -- max@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca | | Donald -- donald@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca | | Tim -- pozar@kumr.lns.com | | Both Don & Sylvia (submission address) | | editor@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | For information, copyrights, article submissions, | | obtaining copies and other boring but important details, | | please refer to the end of this file. | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ======================================================================== Table of Contents ======================================================================== 1. Editorial..................................................... 2 2. Articles...................................................... 2 Area Codes are a Changin'!.................................. 2 The PRIME HOME_SCHOOLING Echo,.............................. 3 Separation of Church & State Echo Now Available............. 4 "Save Us From Ourselves Mr. Echomail Coordinator"........... 5 FlameNet - A must for all FidoNet SysOps!................... 7 Subj : Why I'm here......................................... 8 A call for votes............................................ 9 3. Fidonews Information.......................................... 10 FidoNews 10-43 Page: 2 24 Oct 1993 ======================================================================== Editorial ======================================================================== Tolerance. Sometimes, one gets their comeupance. I found myself, this week, almost cutting an article. I wanted to. We all have our sore spots, and I will admit that mine are hate literature, violence, intolerance ... the mindset that says "I am *RIGHT*, and you will admit it or I will ram it down your throat." When we were applying for this job, I remember a letter to Tom Jennings. I am not sure which one of us said it, but the effect was that the net allowed each to speak mind-to-mind rather than face-to-face. That the net overrode colour, accent, sex, physical deformities and all the other stupid impediments to thinking of people as individuals. Tom replied that he liked to think of the net as a roomfull of people, armed to the teeth, but with no casualties. Freedom of the press has a great disadvantage; a press is an expensive beast, and freedom to use it in any form can only work if everyone has access. That has not been the case with the printing press, but it is far truer with a net like Fidonet. The intolerances can only be fought if we can first hear them, and we can then respond to them. Both are required. There is an election this week in Canada. One of the parties is campaigning on the premise of replacing the airforce with a team of levitating yogi's. Crazy. But then, fifteen years back, I remember two groups that campaigned on another basis. Essentially, the idea was that each side got 10,000 or so atom bombs. If the other side did not behave, then we all committed suicide by aiming and pulling the trigger. Crazyness is relative. We only get to choose when alternatives exist. Perhaps that is the great reward of tolerance: that we give others, and therefore ourselves, choices. I don't give a damn who is *RIGHT*. I wanna fly. ======================================================================== Articles ======================================================================== Area Codes are a Changin'! By Dave Blaser, UFP BBS @ 1:221/401.0 Hello out there in FidoLand! How are you all out there in FidoLand? Everything's just peachy keen here in the wee igloo of Acton (home of the "famous" [HA!] Olde Hide House). I thought that for a change some of you might want to get away from the daily worries of Censorship and Elections (we just had an FidoNews 10-43 Page: 3 24 Oct 1993 election for the NC here in Net221, Congrats to Barry Redwood on becoming the next NC of Net221) and anything else that may worry you in your travels as a SysOp/User/Whatever in FidoNet and something I noticed in FNews 42 struck an interesting thought. Some of you, mostly those who live in Ontario, will have known that Bell Canada has split area code 416 in two. All those people who don't live in Metro Toronto now have the area code 905. This occurred on October 4th, in the year of Our Lord Nineteen Hundred and Ninety-Three (okay, a little too dramatic in the way I said it but you get the picture). Now I've just got one small problem. Some of the BBS' I call for mail have had their area code changed... problem is, I don't know which ones. One question: are the NC's of those areas who have had area codes (or even who have nodes who had their area code changed) going to submit a new section into whomever processes the nodelist and get everything fixed up, or are we just going to have to edit our own nodelists manually and spend countless hours doing that? Kind of a big request, but I'll even go to the trouble of asking wether or not someone in Toronto or the surrounding areas has a nodelist that is correct in area codes? And if so, can I F'Req it from you? Good old Bell Canada is only going to be fixing up the little problems like this for a short time. Responses are both accepted and encouraged, either through the Snooze or in the form of mail to my system.. Thanks guys! Dave ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The PRIME HOME_SCHOOLING Echo, Steve Winter FidoNet 1:18/98 As you may or may not be aware, the moderator of the FidoNet HOMESCHL echo has cut the feed to the PRIME network for her echo because I posted about a practicing Sodomite public school teacher here in a neighboring city (Chapel Hill, NC) who was giving explicit sexual materials to his class that included even child/adult sex in graphic detail. This has been front page news here in Durham, NC. The moderator of HOMESCHL demands an echo where a Sodomite or witch etc, can feel comfortable, an echo devoid of any standard of morality or decency (or any referrence to such). That type of sub-canine immorality is what has provided society with such things as AIDS, openly Sodomite public school teachers, and scoutmaster child molesters (read the news where they have dismissed 1700 scoutmasters for child molesting?)) If the terms "morality" or "decency" hold a positive meaning for you, please keep reading. I, though being an Apostolic Pentecostal (just basic true Biblical Christianity) preacher, do believe that homeschooling needs to be FidoNews 10-43 Page: 4 24 Oct 1993 regarded as a political rather than a religious issue. HOWEVER, even as a political movement, basic foundational principles of decency and morality must not be disguarded. I think that the news of a Sodomite public school teacher passing out pornography is "newsworthy" and should be considered by those who are considering homeschooling. If your interest in Home Schooling is in any way related to the principles of morality and decency that the USA was founded upon, you may wish to consider the HOME_SCHOOLING echo. This echo is not yet on the backbone and would cost you a few cents a week to pick up from 1:18/98. Thank you for your time, Steve Winter moderator/founder HOME_SCHOOLING 1:18/98@fidonet ps. If you wish a feed to HOME_SCHOOLING, just send me a direct netmail at 1:18/98 and BE SURE to pick a session and packet password. Then just start polling as you wish. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Separation of Church & State Echo Now Available by: Charles Sumner 1:2613/228 NEW "CHURCH AND STATE" ECHO Recent activities by the religious right (and particularly religious extremists) have caused a new interest in defining and enforcing the principle of separation of church and state. To facilitate discussion on this particular issue, a new echo is now offered called CHURCH&STATE. This is a forum particularly for discussion of the meaning of the religious liberty clauses of the First Amendment. The actual wording is "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." The arbiter of the meaning of these sixteen words is the Supreme Court. However, there are groups which dispute the meaning. No less a personage than the Chief Justice has disparaged the Jeffersonian interpretation that the First Amendment created a "wall of separation" between church and state. Current battles are being fought to reintroduce government- sponsored prayers and Bible readings, to allow tax funding of religious schools, and even to declare this to be a Christian nation. There are those who wish no mention of God, those who think the church has no business in the affairs of the world, those who would like to have their religious beliefs dominate a pluralistic country. FidoNews 10-43 Page: 5 24 Oct 1993 Those who are (or ought to be) concerned about how these issues are decided are those in favor of reproductive rights, public schools, democratic pluralism, sex education, environmentalism, rights of homosexuals, civil liberties, and more. Others concerned are those opposed to censorship of literature and the arts, creationism as opposed to evolution, a prayer amendment, stealth candidates, a religious test for public office, rhetoric encouraging violence against abortion clinics, theocratic government. There are numerous groups advocating less separation between church and state. The largest and best-financed of these is undoubtedly the one calling itself the Christian Coalition. It now claims 450,000 members and has as its goal a chapter in every county. It has already taken over some 2000 school boards and has considerable influence in the Republican Party, which it expects to control by 1996. If you are interested in getting the latest information on these issues and are interested in getting involved, please contact Phillip Dampier at 1:2613/228 to arrange for a feed of the CHURCH&STATE echo. For a limited time, Phillip will be sponsoring the conference pending its placement on the Fidonet backbone. This will allow systems with 9600 bps or higher to have immediate access to the conference at no expense. We hope you can help make this echo a success. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "Save Us From Ourselves Mr. Echomail Coordinator" by Phillip Dampier 1:2613/228 I decided not to reply to some of our comments I saw in response to my original Fidonews article pertaining to echomail conferences being removed from the backbone for "adult" content because I assumed most people would have understood the fact that I was speaking about the fact that sexual content is no longer the only criteria used to eliminate what is considered "offensive." Apparently some did not. I'm not about to get into some morality contest about what I feel is appropriate for kids to see. Everyone has different standards and their standards apply only to their own family, as far as I am concerned. Several years ago, the sexually explicit/fantasy echos moved to "othernets" like Adultlinks where ages can be verified before access is granted. I have no problem with this and I consider it a reasonable way of keeping echos devoted to sex fantasies out of the hands of kids. FidoNews 10-43 Page: 6 24 Oct 1993 My concern is that we've now moved beyond just removing echos for "sexual content." Two weeks ago, BITCH was removed from the backbone for violating someone's undefined standards of "adult" content. This came, no doubt, after several complaints from people who apparently weren't offended enough to turn off what they can't stand. It's the "Echomail Car Accident Syndrome" at play -- can't stand to look but can't help looking anyway. The point of my article was to demonstrate that such an undefined concept of "adult echomail" could be used by an echomail coordinator to remove almost anything that could be considered offensive by a minority of nodes. Justin's comments two weeks ago demonstrate clearly that my concerns have merit. In his opinion, he's not sure whether echos that pertain to homosexual and lesbian issues deserve a place on the backbone because they might incite someone to choose their sexual orientation. This would be funny if it wasn't so ominous. Justin misses the fact that homosexuals and lesbians have argued for years that their sexual orientation is not a choice. After all, if given a choice, would you choose to be hated by many, beaten by some, and discriminated against en masse? If Justin were in the position of determining what is and is not appropriate for the national echomail backbone, he could easily use the highly subjective rationale that conferences that pertain to gay and lesbian issues are "adult in nature" and have them removed. Worst of all, those that make the decisions are appointed or elected by a tiny minority within Fidonet. Individual nodes have no say in who gets to play "Minister for Decency." I don't need a Fidonet coordinator protecting me from myself. I don't personally read BITCH. I turned it on for awhile and found it puerile, adolescent, and completely irrelevent. I exercised my freedom of choice by turning it off. Apparently, some people who didn't like the echo couldn't just turn it off themselves -- they wanted it turned off for EVERYBODY. One reply to my original article suggested that conference participants would be consulted before an echo was removed. Guess again. No matter that dozens of nodes, who chose for who knows what reason to carry the BITCH echo, wanted to keep the echo -- it was removed anyway. Folks, it's not over yet. The latest draft of Zone One Echomail Policy suggests the creation of a moderator's appeal FidoNews 10-43 Page: 7 24 Oct 1993 council to reign in those out of control conference moderators from "going too far." When it rains, it pours. Alas, we'll have to leave this to another article. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FlameNet - A must for all FidoNet SysOps! By, Kyle Hufford, 1:110/655 FlameNet This is an article about a new net started a few months ago called FlameNet. FlameNet was originally started to rid our local FidoNet areas in net 110 of all the "flame" messages. It has been somewhat successful. All it is, basically, is a net based around flaming, and echoes that allow handles, and have no rules. There are many echoes that are available on different subjects from Clinton bashing, to general debates and arguments. Some of the other echoes include religious discussion, and even issues about abortion and sex. This net has done net 110 in the Dayton, Ohio area a great service. There are now half as many flame messages in our local Fido echoes. Even though the net was started locally here in Dayton, it has since spread throughout the country. The net is currently running in Ohio, Indiana, North Carolina, Kansas, Missouri, and California. There are many echoes available, and the net is expanding larger and larger every day. Another nice thing about this net is it is not only available through front end mailers. It is also available for boards who send and recieve echo mail with .QWK packets. If you are interested in recieving this net, FREQ the magic name FLAME from Matt Grewe @1:110/740, or route mail to me, Kyle Hufford @1:110/655 through node 1:110/150, and I will see to it that you get a copy of the info. The net is set up with zone '69'. Just simply fill out the application in the archive, and send it directly to Matt Grewe, or send it to one of the state NC's in your state if there is one. If you are not in one of the above mentioned states, you can become the NC for your state if you so desire. Thank you for taking the time to read this. Not only will it help get rid of flame messages in other nets, it is also a lot of fun! Actually, it's not all just flaming, there is some intelegent conversation every once in a while! FidoNews 10-43 Page: 8 24 Oct 1993 Call it a press release? From: Bill Teasley (1:147/3660) To: Editor (1:221/192) Fido respect continues to grow as evidenced by the below post (even if he can not spell YOKM's!). Currently SCOTT CARTER, Media Relations for Oklahoma Senate and MIKE RAY, representing the press for the Oklahoma House of Reps have their own local echo, interact with users and even use the local area for research (An open request for comments regarding Search and Seizure laws is on the table at this time). Favourable talks are also underway with three other state and two city level agencies. We look forward to Fido compatable access to boom in the Oklahoma City area! Bill Teasley, System Admin 1:147/3660 ================================================================= Forwarded by Bill Teasley (1:147/3660) Area : OKGOV (OKGOV) From : M.Scott, 1:147/3660 (11 Oct 93 13:55) To : All Subj : Why I'm here. ================================================================== Since it seems that the fact the respective bodies of the Oklahoma Legislature are now BBSing, and this has dawn a few raised eyebrowns from Okla City's computer community, I though I dispell any current (and future) myths. My name is Scott Carter and I am a Media Infromation Officer with the OKlahoma State Senate. Have been a computer nerd since I was small enought to reach a keyboard, it seemed reasonable to compbine both fields. Bill, here at Daddy Yokams has been very helpful is working with me and my counterpart, Mike Ray, a the House of Representatives if working to deliver information to each of you. Why? To be honest, it's part of my job. And posting message here is a lot easier that watching them be altered and rehashed through the conventional press. My goal is to hopeful provide additional access to the general public about their government. (State, that is.) I probably won't be able to answer each question you have, But I can find someone who will. Also, we won't be soliciting anything other than a response (if FidoNews 10-43 Page: 9 24 Oct 1993 you feel so inclined). If you have a specific question to a specific Senator, I'll see that he or she gets it. Otherwise, the message will be answered by me. If you perfer a voice number mine is (405) 521-5698. Thanks, M. Scott ---------------------------------------------------------------------- A call for votes From: Jim Northrup (1:2200/2112) To: Editor (1:221/192) My name is Jim Northrup and I run a mostly free gateway service on a full feed usenet<->fido site. For the past few nodelists, I have had the name "UUCP" in the nodelist in the sysop feild. I am apparently a first in this. currently convention dictates a gateway only use a G (guucp) flag in the nodelisting for a gateway. Editor software using a nodelist must be made aware of this usage for gateway messages addressed to "UUCP". No easy task. Otherwise, one must break out list.com and find a GUUCP flag manually. Following a series of rude letters from "Software John", an NC and Gateway host on the west coast, to myself, my NC (who was highly annoyed with such rude personal address) and my RC (who I get the impression from my NC really has little concern with such squabbles), I have rescinded the listing configuration pending word from Bob Satti; The only relevant political entity that comes to mind. I ask for an informal vote thru netmail. Consider the usage of "UUCP" in the sysop name feild, when used by many seperate sites in various regions of the nodelist, providing a simple choice of gateways for use in an instant if there be a nodelist lookup for the name "UUCP". In my own eyes, this seems a very simple and straightfoward solution to a pile of misdesigned solutions to a simple problem. It only comes natural to do what's easiest (speaking for myself only). I ask carbon copy netmail (vote, comments) regarding this offered dynamic to both me, and Software John, by the general FidoNews 10-43 Page: 10 24 Oct 1993 populace reading this, not the political structure itself. I have had no complaints from users or other sysops, only other gateway operators who have no desire to fly "UUCP" in the name feild of the nodelisting they offer. send identical netmail to the two following concerned parties: Jim Northrup 1:2200/2112.0 (native address) yyz!jim 1:2200/3.0 (converted nodelist gateway-postmaster address) yyz!jim@mbsun.mlb.org (internet/UUCP address) Software John 1:143/0.0 (my mailer receipt address in concerned netmail) Software John 1:143/8.0 (gateway address in nodelist) postmaster@kennel.fidonet.org (internet address given in netmail blasts) A tally of all replies and a text file will be compiled of the results of this poll. From here, I will base my further actions and comments in this debate over what I fly in my nodelisting. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======================================================================== Fidonews Information ======================================================================== ------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION ---------------- Editors: Sylvia Maxwell, Donald Tees, Tim Pozar Editors Emeritii: Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell, Vince Perriello, Tom Jennings IMPORTANT NOTE: The FidoNet address of the FidoNews BBS has been changed!!! Please make a note of this. "FidoNews" BBS FidoNet 1:1/23 BBS +1-519-570-4176, 300/1200/2400/14400/V.32bis/HST(DS) Internet addresses: Don & Sylvia (submission address) editor@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca Sylvia -- max@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca Donald -- donald@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca Tim -- pozar@kumr.lns.com (Postal Service mailing address) (have extreme patience) FidoNews 172 Duke St. E. Kitchener, Ontario Canada N2H 1A7 Published weekly by and for the members of the FidoNet international amateur electronic mail system. It is a compilation of individual FidoNews 10-43 Page: 11 24 Oct 1993 articles contributed by their authors or their authorized agents. The contribution of articles to this compilation does not diminish the rights of the authors. Opinions expressed in these articles are those of the authors and not necessarily those of FidoNews. Authors retain copyright on individual works; otherwise FidoNews is copyright 1993 Sylvia Maxwell. All rights reserved. Duplication and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only. For use in other circumstances, please contact the original authors, or FidoNews (we're easy). OBTAINING COPIES: The-most-recent-issue-ONLY of FidoNews in electronic form may be obtained from the FidoNews BBS via manual download or Wazoo FileRequest, or from various sites in the FidoNet and Internet. PRINTED COPIES may be obtained from Fido Software for $10.00US each PostPaid First Class within North America, or $13.00US elsewhere, mailed Air Mail. (US funds drawn upon a US bank only.) INTERNET USERS: FidoNews is available via FTP from ftp.fidonet.org, in directory ~ftp/pub/fidonet/fidonews. If you have questions regarding FidoNet, please direct them to deitch@gisatl.fidonet.org, not the FidoNews BBS. (Be kind and patient; David Deitch is generously volunteering to handle FidoNet/Internet questions.) SUBMISSIONS: You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in FidoNews. Article submission requirements are contained in the file ARTSPEC.DOC, available from the FidoNews BBS, or Wazoo filerequestable from 1:1/23 as file "ARTSPEC.DOC". Please read it. "Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered trademarks of Tom Jennings, and are used with permission. Asked what he thought of Western civilization, M.K. Gandhi said, "I think it would be an excellent idea". -- END ----------------------------------------------------------------------