Volume 4, Number 14 13 April 1987 +---------------------------------------------------------------+ | _ | | / \ | | /|oo \ | | - FidoNews - (_| /_) | | _`@/_ \ _ | | International | | \ \\ | | FidoNet Association | (*) | \ )) | | Newsletter ______ |__U__| / \// | | / FIDO \ _//|| _\ / | | (________) (_/(_|(____/ | | (jm) | +---------------------------------------------------------------+ Editor in Chief: Thom Henderson Chief Procrastinator Emeritus: Tom Jennings FidoNews is published weekly by the International FidoNet Association as its official newsletter. You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in FidoNews. Article submission standards are contained in the file ARTSPEC.DOC, available from node 1/1. Copyright (C) 1987, by the International FidoNet Association. All rights reserved. Duplication and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only. For use in other circumstances, please contact IFNA. Table of Contents 1. EDITORIAL What is this thing called IFNA? 2. ARTICLES Letting 9 to 5 Go By the Board by Alice Kahn Medical Bulletin Boards SEAdog node list problem Pointless Nodelist Hassles Electronic Mail--Plague or Panacea? 3. COLUMNS Tandy User Group Newsletter (MARCH, 87) 4. FOR SALE UNDER-C(tm) PFS2TXT Program 5. NOTICES The Interrupt Stack Fidonews Page 2 13 Apr 1987 ================================================================= EDITORIAL ================================================================= What is this thing called IFNA? What the heck is IFNA anyway? And what can it do for ME? This is a valid and important question. We've created this outfit called IFNA, and even voted on bylaws for it, but just what does it all mean, anyway? First and foremost, IFNA is a legal entity, a not for profit corporation in and of the State of Missouri. So what does that buy us? Well, it turns out that there are certain advantages to having a corporation around. One that's been highly touted by a lawyer who was involved in the bylaws committee is the "corporate shield". I wish I had a nickel for every time I've heard that phrase. The general theory is that if the business of IFNA is running bulletin boards, then if any member of IFNA is sued for something he did while running a board his own personal assets will not be on the line. All the plaintiff will be able to go for is the assets of IFNA itself. I'm less than incredibly impressed with that argument. It sounds to me like, if push ever really comes to shove, the so-called corporate shield of IFNA will be just one of many points the lawyers will bandy about, much to the expense of the parties involved. But that's not to say that there's no point in having IFNA around. I can see some advantages to it. The thing is that we seem to have two separate entities here. On the one hand we have IFNA, which is this legal entity which may or may not mean anything. On the other hand we have FidoNet, which is a coalition of sysops each doing his or her own thing. IFNA is governed by a Board of Directors elected by its members, while FidoNet is governed by a loose hierarchy of coordinators on several levels. The two are quite different, so how do they connect? "The Net" we all know and love is FidoNet, of course. We don't need IFNA to govern the net. FidoNet has its own policies and procedures to handle all of that quite nicely, thank you. So why bother with all of this corporation nonsense? There are a few reasons: 1) Tax reasons; This is really why IFNA was formed in the first place. Ken Kaplan, the International Coordinator, was incurring some heavy expenses, so he asked for some help to defray the costs. People responded (thank you!), but the IRS saw those donations as income for Ken Kaplan, and did NOT see his expenses as legitimate tax deductions. Incorporation Fidonews Page 3 13 Apr 1987 solves that. 2) There are some advantages to copyrighting the node list and FidoNews. Mainly, by copyrighting them we can enforce our policy that no one may sell them for a profit. But someone has to hold the copyrights. Saying that each is a collective work of 1200+ people doesn't help much. By forming a corporation we create a legal entity to hold the copyrights on our collective property. 3) We're attracting some attention. Various people in the media and in business are interested in what we're doing. Having a recognized business entity for outsiders to deal with makes public relations a lot easier. And it sure doesn't hurt the average sysop for bulletin boards to get a little positive press for a change! 4) While we're at it (and since, once you get right down to it, we're a pretty potent market force) it'd be nice if we could coerce manufacturers into giving us some deals on hardware and software. But companies aren't used to dealing with loose aggregations of individuals. If I call a modem manufacturer, for example, and say "Hi! I'm a sysop, and I have a lot of friends who are sysops -- what can you do for us?" it isn't going to cut much ice. But if I call and say "I represent the International FidoNet Association, a coalition of over twelve hundred sysops worldwide" it carries some weight. A good example of this is the current situation with 9600 baud modems. We're in a pretty good position to establish the de facto standard for 9600 baud. It behooves us to (a) figure out which modems will do what we want, and (b) get the best deal we can from anybody making modems that are good enough. But we can't do that unless we have some sort of cohesive organization for the manufacturers to deal with. So what is IFNA? Three things, mainly. It's our PR department, our legal department, and our public face. That's all, but that's enough. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Fidonews Page 4 13 Apr 1987 ================================================================= ARTICLES ================================================================= LETTING 9 TO 5 GO BY THE BOARD by Alice Kahn (c) San Francisco Chronicle, 1987. Reprinted by permission. So I'm sitting in Hamburger Mary's talking to a guy with orange hair and a skateboard. Big deal. There are plenty of fish with Technicolor hair skating in the SoMa sea. But Tom Jennings is different. He's fresh and rad beneath the surface, a nonconformist trying to create his own life in a world that stomps on nonconformists. He seems determined to go where no man has gone before. Jennings recently went "high profile" as a genuine character when, at 31, he retired from his job at Apple Computer to live by his wits and his skateboard. WHY'D HE DO IT? For me, the only fun in being a journalist is having the license to call up any unusual person you hear about and lunch him. So I ask Jennings why he has done something as weird as leaving a 9-to-5 office job to skateboard - to "shred" the streets. I'm not the first; many have asked why he left his "dream job" as a well-paid systems programmer at Apple, as if a young man who has worked a third of his life in the electronics bussiness has no basis for feeling bored with it. "I think it's the West Coast infatuation with Apple Computer," he says. "I don't mean to knock it. For some it may be the orgasm of a job. But it's still a big corporation. It is run by a guy from Pepsi." It's soon clear that I'm with an artist whose masterpiece is his own life. His delight in risk-taking also makes it fun to be around him. There's not a dead bone in his body. Jennings sees himself as a product of the tacky '70s and the punk anti-culture spawned by what he calls "the era of John Travolta, a time when the emperor's clothes were really off." Opportunities for men of his generation seem to range from service-sector yuppie to marginal bum. The real curiosity about Jennings is How can a smart punk live as a grown-up? Bright in math and science but somewhat of a "wise-off" in high-school, Jennings barely managed to graduate from what he calls "the cesspool of public education." Just out of the cesspool, he went to work in the electronice industry near his hometown of Woods Hole, Mass. In the late '70s, like other lone nuts with a catalog, he began mail-ordering components for his do-it-yourself personal computer. Eventullly, Jennings developed his own computer networking software, FidoNET, which allowed him to have electronic intercourse with people all over the world. Fidonews Page 5 13 Apr 1987 His software accomplishments resulted in Jennings' nomination for the Andrew Fluegelman Award, named after the late editor of PC World and MacWorld. He explains that Fluegelman was also a computer hobbyist who believed that computer software should be free. But, Jennings added, some say that Fluegelman ended up, at 41, jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge. A year ago, Jennings began his late-night solitary glidings through the streets of San Francisco. This led to the decision to live by the board rather than die by the chip. He now works full-time with Shred of Dignity, a skateboarders' union formed to fight various ban-theboard crusaders. His politics are a strange mixture of reverence for organization and distrust of authority and bureaucracy. In his warehouse digs, just a wheelie away from Moscone Center, the walls are covered with punk graffiti and Shred of Dignity notices, yet it seems oddly neat and organized. The handwriting-on-the-wall philosophy ranges from "Skate Free or Die" to "Duke's a Dweeb" to "SFPD: Skate for Pedestrian Destruction" to "Drugs, Just Say No." The House of Jennings reminds me that being a grown-up needn't involve the surrender to drugery that most of us end up with. Of course, being a grown-up is a lot more laughs without a job and kids. In place of the traditional family, Jennings finds support from the electronic network and the skateboarding community. Like other urban explorers, he sees the skateboard and the computer as "guerrilla technology" in the battle to survive with dignity. He finds friends through skateboarding events and encourages use of the Shred of Dignity message phone (882-9973). The tape closes with the group's credo: "Skate until you puke." He proudly shows me the Shred of Dignity Ragazine (sic). "Our 'Zine," he calls it. It includes a map of the city highlighting places to skate and the risks involved (occupational hazards like getting busted and getting beat up). One skating site - "The Dish" - is described in the Ragazine as a concrete object that is "great for skating, but be prepared to get the hell out at the first hint of trouble. Macho bull---- is insane, be a wimp." Jennings seeks out other likeminded wimps for his brave new world. He describes his people as "straight-edge compatible." It's an attitude, he explains, not a lifestyle - whatever that means. The basic components are "don't pollute anything; drugs aren't revolutionary, they're nasty; we're not fighting the government, we're not participating in the government." Many in this pit of punk culture are also vegetarian and celibate -more evidence for the It's Hip to Be Square theory. "Some say straight-edge punks are just late-model Puritans," adds Jennings. LATE-MODEL PURITANS Among the favorite pastimes of these modern Puritans is "thrashing," a kink of dancing that Jennings gleefully describes as "violent." Participants are thrown into a pit packed with people. It could be a metaphor or just a weird thing to do. Standing 6-foot-4 and cachectically thin, Jennings throws so much energy into conversation that you can almost see the calories Fidonews Page 6 13 Apr 1987 burn off. But he becomes most animated when he talks about the animosity to skateboarders. For him, skateboarding is both ecologically sound transportaion and a physical way to enjoy "the three dimensions of the city, the textures of the world. We didn't grow up in the country with outhouses. The streets and the concrete are our natural environment." This theme of the lone pioneer finding kinesthetic beauty in the concrete jungle is echoed repeatedly by other rolling poets in the Shred of Dignety 'Zine. Writes one: "To the skater, CITY is a place with unlimited potential, speed, slides, bails, broken bones, walls, banks, curbs, even the grim feeling of swiftly moving pavement along your thigh." "I'm also into shooting guns," Jennings adds with a wide grin, relishing the shock value of his comment. "But I shoot them purely for fun - not to hurt anybody; not to protect myself; not to kill animals. Hunting is disgusting. I was once with someone when he shot a seagull. I was sick for the rest of the day." Tom Jennings can always make a buck if he has to. And he can give it away, which he has. This allows him the freedom to live his life for the hell of it. He's a socially responsible punk. He also gives great lunch, but I'm glad to be heading home. The burden of being the ordinary one is an incredible drag. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Fidonews Page 7 13 Apr 1987 Edward DelGrosso Black Bag BBS 126/120 Late in 1984 I began to search the nations bulletin boards in order to create a list of boards specifically related to medicine. That first list had about 5 numbers on it and that really took some searching ! Since that time, health care professionals have really begun to take advantage of this powerful new form of communications, and now the list consists of over 90 numbers. Fido Net has been instrumental in this growth. Although still small in number, the sysops of these boards are now publishing their own weekly medical newsletter (Thanks to Dave Dodell at 114/15) and with the advent of echo mail, conferences have developed on a variety of medical topics including AIDS, Social Work, Alcoholism and Emergency Medical Services. I have submitted the following list of medical bulletin boards to Fido News because I think they are a special resource within Fido Net. In addition to being a unique and vital medical communications link, these boards offer general users access to a wealth of medical information in the form of files, programs and on line professionals. I'd like to appeal to the Fido Net Community in enhancing this list. It is an important asset which I feel needs to be aggressively maintained. For my part, I've confiiirmed the existence of these boards on the dates shown below and will continue to do so. I hope any Fido Net users having any additions !!!!!, corrections (especially name and baud rate) or suggestions would take a few minutes and net mail me the info at the address below. Finally, I'd like to thank ALL those who have made Fido Net possible. It truly is the wave of the future and I congratulate those who have been, and are being so responsible in assuring that it evolves in a useful and coherent manner. Also, a special thanks has to go to all those medical Fido Net sysops who have done a superior job in attempting to help and educate society using this new medium. Edward DelGrosso M.D. Black Bag BBS 126/120 ***** ALASKA ***** ANMC (Alaska Native Medical Center) 907-265-9550 1200 03/04/87 ***** ARIZONA ***** Doktur's Z Node 602-279-2762 1200 03/04/87 EMBBS 602-626-7957 2400 03/04/87 Eye Net (114/14) 602-941-3747 2400 03/03/87 St.Joseph Hospital BBS (114/15) 602-235-9653 2400 02/10/87 Fidonews Page 8 13 Apr 1987 ***** CALIFORNIA ***** AIDS Info BBS 415-626-1246 1200 03/08/87 Digex-SDCS Disabled Int. Group. 619-454-8078 1200 03/04/87 Disability 415-841-6253 1200 ? Gone ? Dr's Office RBBS 415-365-9124 1200 03/03/87 Environmental Health 408-298-4277 1200 03/04/87 Fog City Fido(125/10) 415-863-9697 1200 03/04/87 Friend of Bill W. (Alcohol) 415-833-1780 300 03/03/87 Legacy 213-553-7418 1200 03/08/87 LLUMC Medical Library 714-824-4328 1200 03/04/87 Medic 714-964-0454 1200 ? Gone ? RBBS BIOMED 916-454-3324 1200 03/04/87 Recovery Room (125/9) 415-621-5206 1200 03/08/87 Survival Communications (125/7) 707-545-0746 1200 03/03/87 The ARB Research Bulletin 916-324-6997 1200 03/08/87 Wellspring 714-856-7996 1200 03/08/87 ***** COLORADO ***** 8th Sea (104/610) 303-252-9235 2400 03/04/87 ***** DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA ***** Casualty Care BBS 202-576-0211 1200 03/08/87 Psych Research 202-466-2485 1200 12/12/86 ***** DELAWARE ***** Chemist's Comport (150/190) 302-479-0302 1200 03/08/87 ***** FLORIDA ***** Dr. Fido (18/15) 305-744-7862 2400 03/03/87 Epics Division EBBS (135/9) 305-883-6892 1200 03/03/87 Medical Information Sys. 813-885-5443 1200 03/04/87 ***** GEORGIA ***** Atlanta Medical Forum 404-351-9757 1200 03/08/87 Head-Board 404-987-0666 1200 03/03/87 ***** HAWAII ***** Doc Overlook's Fido (12/1) 808-941-5827 1200 12/01/86 ***** ILLINOIS ***** Dirty Ole Man(100/482) 618-254-2763 2400 03/09/87 Midwest Biomedical Engineering 312-227-7455 1200 03/04/87 ***** INDIANA ***** Testing Station 317-846-8917 1200 03/08/87 ***** IOWA ***** Fidonews Page 9 13 Apr 1987 Anesthesiology BBS 319-353-6528 1200 03/04/87 ***** KANSAS ***** Medical Network BBS 316-688-5329 1200 03/08/87 ***** KENTUCKY ***** Fido-Racer(11/301) 502-762-2155 1200 03/03/87 Operating Room 502-245-3516 1200 03/04/87 ***** LOUISIANA ***** LA Medsig 504-737-8173 1200 12/01/86 ***** MARYLAND ***** Maryland Med-Sig 301-332-7386 2400 03/04/87 Micronetics Mumps BBS 301-948-6825 1200 03/04/87 The FIDO Solution(109/644) 301-363-7617 2400 03/03/87 ***** MASSACHUSETTS ***** Physics Forum (101/110) 413-545-1959 1200 03/04/87 ***** MICHIGAN ***** Michigan Med Sig 517-782-5342 1200 03/08/87 Psych Forum MSU 517-353-2003 1200 03/04/87 ***** MINNESOTA ***** Minn. Medical Conference 612-434-6315 300 03/04/87 ***** MISSISSIPPI ***** Optometry Online (100/514) 314-553-6068 1200 03/08/87 ***** NORTH CAROLINA ***** Health Education Forum 704-264-0674 1200 03/04/87 ***** NORTH DAKOTA ***** N.Dakota Family Med. 701-780-3228 1200 03/03/87 ***** NEBRASKA ***** Creighton U Pharmacy 402-280-3023 1200 03/08/87 ***** NEW JERSEY ***** BMBBS The Hospital 201-992-9893 2400 03/04/87 ***** NEW YORK STATE ***** Fidonews Page 10 13 Apr 1987 Infancy Research (260/208) 716-244-7418 1200 03/04/87 The Med Tech Fido (260/10) 716-897-0504 2400 03/08/87 MicroLab BBS (107/233) 516-682-8525 2400 ***** NEW YORK CITY ***** American Psych Exchange 212-662-7171 1200 03/04/87 Clinically Oriented Fido 716-897-0504 2400 03/04/87 Emergency Info Line 212-269-3023 1200 03/01/87 Emergency Medic (107/110) 718-238-8120 2400 03/04/87 NYU Medical Fido (107/18) 212-254-3190 2400 03/08/87 Pharm Stat 718-217-0898 1200 03/08/87 ***** NEW YORK STATE ***** Infancy Research (260/208) 716-244-7418 1200 03/04/87 The Med Tech Fido (260/10) 716-897-0504 2400 03/08/87 MicroLab BBS (107/233) 516-682-8525 2400 ***** OHIO ***** Black Bag BBS (126/120)!!!!!! 614-421-7254 1200 03/09/87 CHIPS (157/697) 216-929-8483 1200 03/08/87 CHRF 513-559-8098 1200 03/08/87 Free-Net 216-368-3888 1200 03/04/87 Health Care (157/501) 216-331-4241 1200 03/04/87 ***** OKLAHOMA ***** Laboratory Forum 405-721-4502 1200 03/08/87 ***** PENNSYLVANIA ***** Datamed 412-656-0775 2400 03/04/87 Eye Opener BBS 215-834-8594 1200 03/04/87 Freedom Network (13/18) 717-253-4354 2400 03/04/87 Hemisphere 215-489-2768 1200 01/03/87 Jets RBBS (Jefferson Med) 215-928-7503 1200 03/04/87 North Star Medical CP/M 412-881-1749 2400 03/04/87 Phila Med 215-848-1152 1200 02/08/87 Scooters Sci Exchange 215-922-2541 1200 03/04/87 The Abstraction 215-295-1864 1200 02/15/87 The Second Opinion (129/31) 412-826-0822 2400 03/08/87 ***** TEXAS ***** Bare Bones Tox Net (117/1270) 409-845-9316 1200 03/08/87 COMSYS (Chemistry) 713-747-9547 1200 03/04/87 DataBank_II(160/102) 512-643-2251 1200 12/21/86 Diabetes Discussion 512-454-9821 1200 03/04/87 Disabled Interest Group 915-592-5424 1200 03/04/87 Doc's Dental Office 214-463-6581 2400 03/04/87 Health Link 512-444-9908 1200 03/04/87 NET-WORKS Medi-Quip-Network 713-747-1232 1200 03/04/87 NFormation(Neurofibromatosis) 713-558-9908 1200 03/08/87 Vet Tech Hos (117/1261) 409-845-9199 1200 02/28/87 Fidonews Page 11 13 Apr 1987 XRoads Med Net (19/210) 512-572-0715 1200 01/23/87 ***** VIRGINIA ***** ShanErin (109/604) 703-941-8291 2400 03/04/87 The Flying PC_AT(109/612) 703-556-0253 2400 03/08/87 ***** WASHINGTON STATE ***** Cardio Board 206-328-7876 1200 03/08/87 Health Online 206-367-8726 1200 12/12/86 Midwife's Bag (138/41) 206-275-4146 2400 03/08/87 US HDS Human Service (138/35) 206-442-8127 1200 03/01/87 ***** WISCONSIN ***** Dent-Tech 414-224-1062 1200 03/04/87 The latest version of the list along with the Qmodem phone directory used in its compilation is always available on the BLACK BAG BBS (126/120) (614) 421-7254 ----------------------------------------------------------------- Fidonews Page 12 13 Apr 1987 Thom Henderson, 107/6.1 SEAdog node list problem A bug has turned up in SEAdog 4.0 when it compiles a very large node list. Some people are hitting it now with the latest node list plus private lists, and everyone will probably hit it when the public list gets a little larger. Yes, this is truly a bug, and we apologize for it. It shows up as MAILER hanging when it compiles the node list. TELL, SEND, and GET can handle a somewhat bigger node list, and MAIL should be able to handle an even bigger list, but all would get stuck on it if given a large enough node list. Future versions of SEAdog won't have this particular bug, but that doesn't help much right now. So to deal with this problem we've written a program called NLBUG.EXE, which should be able to compile a node list of any size. Or at any rate, we know from testing it that it'll properly handle a node list of over 5000 nodes in over 300 nets. The suggested sequence of events is: 1) Run XlatList to create NODELIST.BBS 2) Move NODELIST.BBS to wherever SEAdog normally looks for it. 3) Run NLBUG. 4) Delete NODELIST.BBS 5) Proceed as usual. NLBUG will then compile the node list properly. To get a copy of NLBUG, either file request NLBUG.EXE from node 107/6, or send us network mail and we'll send you a copy. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Fidonews Page 13 13 Apr 1987 Pointless Nodelist Hassles I just had one of the stupidest experiences in my life: trying to get a current nodelist. Bear with me. I have been away from the IFNA net for a while, but I had lots of experience with it in the past. I have a nodelist from Oct 86, and want to get a somewhat current one. Easy, right? Dead wrong. After over an hour of long distance calls, no luck. I tried 1/0, 618- something. Said "loading Opus...", never came back. (3+ minutes) Tried 1/2, its now 100/22 only, no problem with that, but no nodelist. OK. Wrote down various help/bug nodes, modem help, etc. Called those. NYC, LA, etc. No nodelist files AT ALL! Not even nodediffs. Finally found some stuff on echohelp in NYC? Dozens of DIFF files, a few nodelist files, but Opus wouldn't let me list selectively through the 100+ files in the area, and anyway, the newest nodelist was Jan 87, and Id have to get all the DIFFs to bring it up to speed. This is stupid and absurd. Can't there be somewhere in region 1 that is a small number of places where the nodelist can be found? Like maybe a complete ARC'd nodelist from the beginning of the month plus DIFFs, or maybe even just a complete nodelist every week? My experience isn't that unusual, lots of people get out of sync with the diffs, or drop out and come back like I'm trying to, or maybe just messed up and want to get cleaned up. DIFFs are great, but they were supposed to be a time & effort saver, not another bureaucracy. Let's be real folks. DIFFs are a waste of time under many conditions, like when you have to get a number of them to get up to date, that's not what they were meant for. Take a 70K nodelist, add a dozen or so DIFF files, and you have a huge download, and a complex and error prone XLAT process. Any arguments about disk space, etc are a waste of time. It's just not that big, and besides, you could just not bother keeping so many old DIFFs around. (If the nodelist complete is say 70K, then you reach break even when the DIFFs total 70K, right? To keep a 70K nodelist, plus dozens of DIFFs, "to save disk space" is silly. A 70K nodelist, plus the last months DIFFs is plenty. The files just aren't that inherently interesting historically. Maybe someone should keep a copy of every one ever made, but not everyone needs to.) The nodelist is the life blood of the IFNA net, and if I, an experienced FidoNet sysop, cannot find a copy then certainly relative-novices and other outside people certainly cant. The flyer I received in the mail also doesn't have ANY phone numbers on it. I realize as well as anyone that BBS numbers aren't reliable, but don't the IFNA overhead ones tend to stay up for months at a time? Like 1/1, 1/0, etc? Can't these be published with a disclaimer, and the address "if all else fails, Fidonews Page 14 13 Apr 1987 write ..."? It would probably save a LOT of letters & stamps & hassles in answering questions. I still don't have a nodelist, and I don't know what to do, except make more expensive phone calls and hope that 1/0 will finally load Opus or something so I can see if the files are even there. I think a number of NODELIST NODES in region 1 would fix this, all they have to do is have the damn files around. Or maybe put it in the comment section, or something. Just so there is some way for someone like me (or worse off) can find a nodelist! ----------------------------------------------------------------- Fidonews Page 15 13 Apr 1987 Electronic Mail--Plague or Panacea? A Random Walk Courtesy of the Keyboard of Kurt Reisler SYSOP The Bear's Den (109/74) The Pot of Gold (109/483) [AARRGGHH!! Stop me! I feel an article coming on!] Every once in a while, something happens out there in the wild and wacky world of FIDONET that triggers the creative juices. Usually I just wipe it off the keyboard. However, the recent spate of repetative messages that have been reverberating around the country in the national echomail conferences (the national SYSOP conference in particular) caused me to put the following thoughts down. I would have put them into the echo, but these thoughts should be shared with the FIDO community at large (at least I think so, and the FIDONEWS will publish anything). The advent of electronic mail has opened a wonderful tool for communications. In this microcomputer age, it is possible to exchange thoughts (great or not-so-great) on a one-on-one or a one-on-many basis. Though the use of echomail conferences, the ability to have many-on-many exchanges exists. All of these are a two-edged sword. They can be both a panacea and a plague. Echomail messages take several forms. On rare occaisions, they are private messages between two individuals, or groups of individuals (i.e. SYSOP to SYSOP). The latter message type is really public, as everyone in that "class" has access to these messages. So in a sense, they are privledged, rather than private. For the most part, messages in an echomail conference are public, open for response and comment by all participants in that echo. The content of these messages can vary widely, as anyone who participates in an echo can verify. Some are the general "how do I do this, or why does my program do this" question that is addressed to no one in particular. These messages propogate accross the net, in a manner not unlike the ripples caused by a rock thrown into a pond. However, unlike the ripple, this message can generate a reply from each and every node that it passes through. Because of propogation delays, these replys may take several days to get back to the originator of the original "rock". And each of these replays also propogates around the net in the same fashine. Soon, you have a very rough surface on this otherwise calm pond, as the replies and replies-to-replies bounce back and forth accross the net. Eventually the "pond" calms down, until someone who has not been read the mails for a while, responds to the question, and the entire process begins again. In the case of the "REN/RENUM/REN" ripple, the results are rather benign. The responses that have been repeating from almost every Fidonews Page 16 13 Apr 1987 node have been essentially the same. Everyone seems to be of the opinion that they would be the only one to reply to this relatively straight-forward problem. This is not a bad thing, but it is taking up bandwidth (as is this article, which is getting to be a LOT longer than I thought it would). In other cases, it is interesting to note that everyone seems to have a different opinion about a technical question, which would appear to have a single, correct answer. It is left up to the reader to determine which of the barrage of "feedback" to the original question is the correct one. This is also not a bad thing. However, there are other, nastier, things lurking in the echos. Quite often, an individual will make a statement or observation of how "things seem to me". Usually, these pass unnoticed through the nets. However, occaisionally they trigger a reaction that can be very ugly. A recipient of the message will decide that not only does the sender have no right to express this opinion, but the recipient will make sure that the originator never is foolish enough to again clutter the bandwidth with an opinion that is contrary their own outlook on life, the universe and other things (wow, that was a close one!). The resulting flamage, results in severe cluttering of the net, with personal attacks that are senseless, pointless, redundant, immature, vindictive and in some cases potentially libelous. We see the ugly head of the "you can express your opinion, as long as it agrees with mine" beast rearing up over the keyboard. Usually a single message will result in a bararge of abuse, usually from individuals who are well known for their writing styles. Often, they succeed in their objective, and the originator of the message is beaten into submission and will seldome venture into the echos to express another opinion. In other cases, they succeed in driving these valuable individuals to giving up on the echos and fidonet. Those of us who have been at this for a while have seen this happen. And it is not limited to echomail conferences over FIDONET. I have seen the same type of thing happen accros USENET, which has a much broader user base. So, what is my point? (This article has gotten out of hand!) Electronic mail in the form of echomail conferences can be a two- edged sword. It can be used for a creative purpose, such as the solving of technical and non-technical problems, the sharing of information, or just communicating with a fellow communications addict via the keyboard and screen. It can also be used in a very destructive manner to put down, to ridicule, to lie, to slander, to confuse, to generate disinformation or generate apathy. There are a lot of individuals of both types out there. There is a little of both in each of us. The final decision as to whether we use this electronic blade as a tool for progress or a weapon of destruction is in our own hands. As Pogo once said "We have met the enemy, and it is us." The ultimate choice as to where we head as a network, is in OUR hands. Your comments are most welcome and encouraged. I can be reached by name or as SYSOP on FidoNet nodes 109/74, The Bear's Den (703-671-0598); and 109/483, The Pot of Gold (703-359-6549). For those of you with access to USENET (the FidoNews is available in Fidonews Page 17 13 Apr 1987 mod.mag.fidonet) I can be reached at ..!seismo!hadron!klr. If there is any interesting response of either type, I will "summerize them to the net". The above ramblings were aimed at no one in particular, and everyone in general. However, I am sure that there will be some who feel I am refering to them. All in all, this got entirely too long. "IFNA, love it or change it. If you chose to ignore it, don't complain about the directions it takes." ----------------------------------------------------------------- Fidonews Page 18 13 Apr 1987 ================================================================= COLUMNS ================================================================= Things have gone well this past week. I stopped by my local dealer and he was very busy. He was due to give a seminar at a computer show in the area and didn't have the time to learn how to use the software, and he wanted to give a demonstration during the seminar. I offered to help him out, and as a result got a chance to play with the latest in Desktop Publishing software. I had some time to look around the show and am happy to report that Springboard is taking Certificate Maker seriously, at least I found someone selling the first library disk of certificates. The new disks also include several new border styles as well as over one hundred new certificates. Other than that there wasn't much else at the show, although I was seriously tempted to buy a laptop computer that was on sale (I hate myself later when I empty my checking account at these shows). Thanks to the money I made giving the demonstration at the seminar, I have ordered ATI's EGA Wonder which is a sort of Swiss Army knife among video cards and will be letting you know how it works out in a few weeks. -- PageMaker (Aldus corp. list price $695.00) -- Those of you who are fans of PageMaker on the Macintosh will be pleased to hear that it works the same on the PC. The PC version of PageMaker runs under Windows, so any monitor and printer that Windows understands will run PageMaker fine. The only catch is that Windows is SLOW! I tried running it on an XT initially and eventually gave up because of the delays. On an AT the speed is bearable, and it probably wouldn't even be noticed on a 386 machine. The speed problem is due to Windows multitasking capabilities, if your machine runs Windows at an acceptable speed you shouldn't have any problems with PageMaker. There's a whole list of software that the PC version can work with for text and pictures, and I will say it did read my text files created with Word, WordPerfect and Wordstar. In the graphics department all I got it to read in was Windows Paint pictures and Lotus PIC images. It is supposedly capable of bringing in drawings from AutoCad and some other programs, but I didn't have any of the other one's around. I found it exceptionally easy to move my text around the pages although at first it seemed odd to divide the page into six different sections each containing part of one of my columns. My only complaint on it's text capabilities is that the text wouldn't flow around my pictures to easily. In order to get a picture to fill half a column I had to divide my text into three different parts; the part above the picture, the part next to the picture and the part below the picture. I would have liked it if things had been a little easier for something like this. Another nice extra is that PageMaker automatically determined which word processor had been used when it read in my text, the only exception was I had to "tell" it when I was reading in straight Fidonews Page 19 13 Apr 1987 ASCII. The editing capabilities within PageMaker are nothing fantastic, although they would be more than adequate to make a few last minute changes. Manipulating the graphics images wasn't as easy as the text. Those of you familiar with the Macintosh version may enjoy PageMaker's methods for cropping a picture, but I found it slightly clumsy to my way of working. This isn't to say that they aren't extremely capable, once I got used to how it worked it wasn't that bad. It's just that it isn't as instinctive to me as the rest of the program, and I was never able to get the text to flow around a picture as easily as I'd like. The other newcomer into the PC Desktop Publishing arena did things a little better in this department. -- Ventura Publisher (Xerox corp. list price $895.00) -- Ventura Publisher is Xerox's bid into the PC Desktop Publishing market and this one really blew my mind! First off it runs under GEM instead of Windows. While I am not really a fan of either of these two operating environments, GEM beats Windows any day. Mainly because GEM doesn't suffer from the delusion that a PC or XT can be a good multitasking system so it runs a lot quicker. Also since software manufactures can get a run time version of GEM, you don't have to buy GEM in order to use Ventura (you have to buy Windows if you want to run PageMaker). While you don't get the full GEM operating environment, Ventura runs fine and you don't have to do any extra work when you exit it (you have to exit Windows after exiting PageMaker). While PageMaker costs less than Ventura, keep in mind that you've got the hidden cost in PageMaker that you don't have with Ventura (so don't write me telling me how PageMaker costs so much less than Ventura). For those of you unfamiliar with a run-time library (or "program" in this case) what it means is that Xerox can give you the necessary part of GEM in order to use their product and they just pay Digital Research so much for every copy of Ventura they sell. Aldus can't do the same thing with PageMaker because Microsoft doesn't have a run-time version of Windows, you either have it or you don't. Ventura matches PageMaker's text editing capabilities in every department and destroys it because Ventura uses style sheets. A style sheet is one of the things that makes Ventura a lot better than PageMaker in my book, it allows you to define the characteristics (justification, size, type face, etc.) of any paragraph of text. If you're doing a magazine type layout you might have a particular way you want a liftout to look (a liftout is those few lines of text that publisher's take out of the text and turn into big bold letters that stand out from the text and either catch your eye or annoy you depending on what mood you're in). In Ventura you'd merely define what a liftout should look like, click on the paragraph that should be "lifted-out," and click on your liftout definition (when "categorizing" paragraphs all your defined styles appear in box to the left of the screen). If you're looking over the text for the first time it's just as easy to mark the text that should be a liftout, copy it to Fidonews Page 20 13 Apr 1987 wherever you want the liftout and then mark it as such. All this made Ventura an utter joy to use. I can't emphasize enough how easy style sheets made it when creating a document. While Ventura only comes with 21 different style sheets, you can modify any of them or create totally new ones. Ventura beats PageMaker hands down when in comes to image pictures in my book. Some of the image pictures from other programs it can use are PC Paintbrush, GEM paint, and supposedly anything from a Microtek Dest image scanner. I found it much easier to enlarge and shrink the pictures, and the cropping was much more powerful AND easier to use. You can set the sizing and scaling in a few keystrokes, and crop the image within it's frame. I should mention that everything in Ventura goes in a frame, if no other frame is specified the background page becomes the frame. Border's around pictures became a snap, and it would allow a border to be made up of as many as 3 lines with you controlling the thickness of each line and the spacing between each of them. Captions to pictures were just as easy and you can easily move them from either side of the picture or above and below. You are also capable of squeezing a lot into the caption and controlling how much space is set aside for it. With line art (as Ventura calls it) you can import pictures from AutoCAD (although once again I wasn't able to really test this), almost any of the GEM programs (GEM Graph, GEM Draw, etc.), Lotus 1-2-3 PIC files and Symphony picture files (might even handle Framework if Framework generates a "standard" picture file). I know it can handle AutoCAD because of some of the samples included with Ventura, mainly the nozzle picture and the picture of the Space Shuttle which I have seen being manipulated using AutoCAD. One of the nice things you can do with Ventura is add some text to a picture and then make an arrow pointing to from your text to part of the drawing. I used this to make a comment on a graph and actually point to that section of the graph. On line art you can't do very much in the way of cropping, but you are capable of resizing it up to a full page. Let me point out that Ventura is NOT a good drawing program. It's capabilities in that department are minimal, mainly just add a small box of text and draw lines, circles, and boxes. If you plan on doing much "free hand" drawing, you'll want a decent paint (or drawing) program like PC Paintbrush. This shouldn't be a problem since you would probably be using a word processor to generate the initial text and either a scanner, paint program, or drawing program (or CAD program) to create the individual parts of a document and just bring them all together using Ventura. Printer support in Ventura is pretty decent. They've covered most of the laser printers out there (mainly through compatibility to the HP laser printers and PostScript) although dot matrix wise you'd need something that's compatible with an Epson. An unusual capability is the Xerox color printer, if you have either that or a color printer compatible with it you can print in up to eight different colors. The catch is you really need a PostScript printer to take full advantage of a wide Fidonews Page 21 13 Apr 1987 variety of different type styles and sizes. Is there any PostScript printers out there besides the Apple LaserWriter's (excluding the professional typesetting equipment)? If so please let me know about them, it's a shame that only one company will support what is bound to become a standard since IBM's announcement (yes, IBM is now officially endorsing PostScript). That's about all on the hot new software I promised I'd look at last week. I didn't intend it to run on for so long, but I just had to write about it while my memory was still fresh. If I had to choose between PageMaker and Ventura right now, I'd have to say go with Ventura. It seems to have a lot more capability than PageMaker, and I think it's worth the extra bucks (which isn't that much after you toss Windows into PageMaker). Maybe one of these days I'll have the money to buy one of these products (and a PostScript printer) and I'll be able to give you a better run down on them. Until then, this is going to have to do. -- Winding Down.. -- Best game I've had a chance to play with this week has been EMPIRE, which is available on many bulletin board systems. It's you against the computer in taking over a world. After a few hours I was able to beat the computer at the easy level and in setting out to explore the world I gained a lot of insight in the logistic problems of today's armies. You start out with one town, and every town you control can produce one "product" be it armies, planes, various types of ships, etc. Each town you capture will also produce something for you. In trying to manage several cities, you could get bogged down in the commands to every troop, plane, and ship. Thankfully you can "automate" a lot of your commands like telling an army to just roam the continent. I've had quite a bit of fun with it, and like HACK it was initially written for a UNIX type machine so just about everybody out there can run it. Best book this month goes to "Using PC DOS" by Chris DeVoney (QUE books, $21.95). It would make an excellent supplement to Learning MS-DOS which I commented on a few weeks ago. It has sections in it for both the beginner and more advanced users and covers the topics well. Some of the topics include how to prepare diskettes, managing DOS directories, and what a RAM disk is and how to use it. It will probably become a well worn book in the next few months in my own library (from loaning it out to friends who are just beginning if nothing else). Next column I should get around to looking at the new SEAdog (originally meant to write about it in this column, sorry Thom) and a nice database program I found on a local board. I once again welcome your comments on my column. I'd especially like to hear from you if you think I should look over any specific products (hardware or software). If you're a user of a bulletin board please mention to your sysop that mail to me must be routed through either 157/0, 157/502, or 157/1 , and sysops just take note of this sentence. All of those nodes are running SEAdog and will take mail (and files) to be forwarded to me anytime. I'll Fidonews Page 22 13 Apr 1987 try and answer any mail, so please give a node number (or site name on USEnet) if you send anything though US Snail (oops US mail). Dale Lovell 3266 Vezber Drive Seven Hills, OH 44131 uucp: ..!ncoast!lovell FidoNet: 157/504 ----------------------------------------------------------------- Fidonews Page 23 13 Apr 1987 from OpusNODE 362/1, The Last Resort - Chattanooga, TN Tandy User Group Newsletter.... March, 1987 PC MAGAZINE REVIEWS TANDY COMPUTERS Earlier this week, several Tandy executives attended the "1987 PC Forum" in Scottsdale, Arizona. PC Magazine publisher William Lohse and Editor Bill Machrone made it a point to tell Graham Beachum and/or me, how well they think we're doing in the marketplace, and how highly they regard our MS-DOS product line. Too bad they don't write the reviews in their magazine! When we returned to Fort Worth, we found the March 31 issue of PC, with reviews on the Tandy 1000 EX, 1000 SX, and 3000 HL computers. The reviewer obviously didn't share their enthusiasm. But... neither did he understand or have accurate facts about the machines he reviewed. We won't argue with a reviewer who forms his negative opinions based on fact, but these reviews weren't in that category. I'll say that the reviewer obviously didn't understand the 1000 EX and its positioning as an entry-level home and school product. He tried to measure it by office standards... the need for IBM board compatibility, the lack of hard disk capability, etc. I would suggest that it actually is a computer capable of running IBM PC software, at a price most people would expect to pay for a computer principally intended for entertainment. That said, I will try to overlook his opinion-based statements and address some of the half-truths and outright errors... 1) The EX was panned for lack of expandability, and it was said we offer "640K RAM expansion and a 300/1200-baud modem." The impression left was that only two boards are available. Fact - we offer seven... the RAM, a 300-baud modem, a 1200-baud modem, RS-232, mouse/clock board, Network 4 card, and STB's new EX Chauffeur display adapter. More are coming. 2) Of both the EX and SX, the reviewer said our video signal timing is so far off the IBM standard that the 25th line of the display disappears behind the monitor bezel of non-Tandy monitors. Fact - ours are 220-line monitors, while IBM's display 200 vertical lines. There is a MODE 200 command which may be keyed in or put in an AUTOEXEC.BAT file to compensate if you're using a non-Tandy monitor. 3) The EX was described as "... a moderate performer, yielding nowhere near the double speed its fast clock would imply." Fact -7.16 Mhz is 50% faster than 4.77 Mhz, not double. We claim a 20% throughput gain, which is exactly what PC found. 4) "The EX's 4.77 Mhz speed was even more disappointing, at best 10 percent slower than the standard IBM time." Fact - With 256K RAM, the video refresh is interleaved. When you expand beyond 256K, video RAM is re-positioned, and refresh is no Fidonews Page 24 13 Apr 1987 longer interleaved. Speed should at least equal the IBM. 5) "For anyone accustomed to the IBM standard, the EX keyboard is a terror." By the time he reached the SX, the same keyboard was "Both compelling and confounding. The touch is positive, with both audible and "tactile feedback." Fact - it's the same keyboard that received raves on the Tandy 2000. Absolute keyboard cloning is hardly a major issue to a first time user. Our "enhanced keyboard", an exact duplicate of IBM's "enhanced keyboard" (except for indicator lights), can be adapted to the SX for those with a need for key placement compatibility. 6) Personal DeskMate was described as "... all the software you'll need--until you discover how much better commercial programs can be." Fact - it's furnished free with the computer. It's an entry-level program designed to give the user immediate utility and the ease of use provided by Microsoft Windows conventions. There was no intention or claim that DeskMate replaces hi-level, full-featured applications packages. We hope introducing new users to the concepts involved, will allow them to make a more informed choice of full-featured, megabuck "commercial programs", when they're ready. 7) "... the 1000 EX will not run PC-DOS 3.2." Fact - the 1000 EX absolutely runs PC-DOS 3.2. (It obviously won't run IBM's BASIC, since part of IBM's BASIC is and always has been in ROM. Could this be what confused the reviewer?) 8) "...the 1000 EX has severe limitations. The worst of these are proprietary expansion, no provision for a hard disk, and its odd keyboard." Fact - most entry-level users or "homework" users, will need video, a printer, and the ability to expand to 640K. They'll transport their work on floppies, hardly on hard disks. And to my knowledge, all the popular software is still delivered on floppies... Lotus, Ashton- Tate, Microsoft, etc. If your needs are greater, you should be looking at a 1000 SX anyway. 9) "You must buy a special Tandy adapter cable to tie in your parallel printer." Fact - We use an industry-standard parallel I/O... there's no adapter involved. Yes, you have to buy a printer cable -- regardless of the computer you choose. 10) The Tandy 1000 SX is described as a "stripped down though not unlikable machine." Fact - The SX comes with 384K, two drives, faster clock, dual speed processor, printer interface, monochrome and color video interface, graphics capability, composite and RGBI outputs, sound, line-level audio output, light pen port, two joystick ports, an 8087 co- processor socket, and five open PC-compatible slots (even with 640K RAM on board.) And, it's supplied with DOS, BASIC, and DeskMate II. Maybe I'm getting subjective, but I'd sure like him to tell me when a computer ceases to be "stripped down." Fidonews Page 25 13 Apr 1987 11) "The standard MS-DOS 2.11 operating system of the 1000 SX allows access to a huge library of PC-Compatible programs. Yet the machine does have its incompatibilities. Like many older compatibles, it will not run PC-DOS 3.2." Fact - not only does it run PC-DOS 3.2, but it is supplied standard with MS-DOS 3.2, not 2.11 as stated. 12) On both the EX and SX, memory benchmark tests were not run "because of insufficient memory." We'd have been most happy to send additional memory, had it been requested. We supply reviewers with any configuration they ask for. Had the memory been installed, the video memory change would probably have resulted in better numbers for all the tests. 13) In a chart on page 168, parallel ports were listed as optional on both the 1000 EX and 1000 SX. Fact - They're standard... built right onto the motherboard. 14) Same chart shows expansion slots for the EX as "none". Fact - The EX has one proprietary slot. Our memory expansion card, when plugged into that slot, provides two additional "plus slots" for two more option boards. 15) The review of the 3000 HL says it has seven slots, three "XT- style 8-bit" and four "full AT-style 16-bit." Fact - reverse the numbers and you have it... four XT and three AT slots. Don't get me wrong... I know the senior executives at PC magazine, and have great respect for them and their publication. This is a commentary on three Tandy reviews, nothing more. Less than two days after the review reached us, there was at least one message thread, about the inaccuracies, on CompuServe's Tandy forums. I believe it is appropriate that we should take this avenue -- about the most timely one open to us -- to set the record straight. I have asked PC Magazine's publisher what can be done to set the record straight with his readers. LARGEST MODEL 100 CLUB ? I had a call this week from Rick Hansen of "Club 100", a Model 100 user group which claims to be the largest. Rick reports a membership of about 600 people. Can anyone top that? In case you'd like more information, the address is P.O. Box 23438, Pleasant Hill, CA 94523. They have a BBS, too... (415)939-1246. MOUSES Or "mice" or whatever you prefer. We've had a few questions recently about the discontinuing of our 26-1197 Digi-Mouse. No, we're not abandoning these little critters. Currently, we have the Logitech Mouse in our Express Order system (Cat. No. 90-2055 for 25-pin, 90-2056 for 9-pin). They will replace our Digi-Mouse as a store-stocked item in the second quarter of this year, and can be ordered from Express Order between now and then. Fidonews Page 26 13 Apr 1987 TANDY 1000 DOCUMENTATION Many Tandy computer buyers are novice computer users in every sense of the word. One of the most frightening things to any first-time computer user, is to be confronted by a mountain of documentation. That's why we elected to hold the "standard" documentation down to a minimum. We tried to include just enough to get those first-time users up and running with off-the-shelf applications packages or DeskMate. We firmly believe our decision was absolutely right for those first-time users. That's the good news. The bad news is the folks among you who are quite computer-literate felt short changed. First off, let me assure you that you got what you paid for. Had we included detailed documentation on MS-DOS and GW-BASIC, the cost of the computer would have increased a bit. And for those of you who want that documentation, there is an MS-DOS/GS- BASIC reference manual available... Cat. No. 25-1508, $29.95. It's a question that comes up often at user group meetings, so I thought maybe you'd like to know our reasoning. HARD DRIVE OWNERS Our merchandising department would like to alert hard drive owners to a potential problem area that doesn't have to be. It has to do with hard drive formatting. From personal experience, I can assure you it will cause trouble. When you format your hard drive, you must enter the "bad track" information that is supplied with your drive. If you don't, you can have failures which will look exactly like hardware glitches. Be sure you enter this information any time you format. The media error map should be taped to the bottom of the computer or external hard drive case. If yours was installed by our service center, it may be taped to the top of the drive itself. That's about it for now... see you next month. Material contained herein may be reproduced in whole or in part in user group newsletters. Please quote source as Tandy Corporation/Radio Shack. Send questions/suggestions to: Ed Juge, director of market planning Radio Shack 1700 One Tandy Center Fort Worth, TX 76102 NOTE: Join the Tandy EchoMail Conference by contacting myself or Neal Curtin (138/14) 206-527-5618. KeyWord for conference is "MOD1000." Fidonews Page 27 13 Apr 1987 ----------------------------------------------------------------- Fidonews Page 28 13 Apr 1987 ================================================================= FOR SALE ================================================================= Stanley Quayle Fido 126/1 Do you have files created by pfs:Write or IBM Writing Assistant? Want to convert to another word processor but can't? The UNDER-C(tm) PFS2TXT Program can convert pfs:Write and IBM Writing Assistant files to ASCII text format. The headers, footers, bolding, and underlining is included in the output file. $25 for printed instructions with executable program on a 5-1/4" disk. 3-1/2" disk is available for an extra $5. Ohio residents please include 6-1/2% sales tax. Shipping extra on overseas orders. NOT copy-protected. Conversion service is available for $5 per file. 24-hour turnaround on files sent through Fido to Stanley Quayle, 126/1. MasterCard and Visa orders: (216) 237-4395 Quayle Research, Inc. 6548 Edgerton Road N. Royalton, OH 44133 For more information, contact Stanley Quayle on 126/1. The source code of the PFS2TXT Program comes with purchase of the UNDER-C Library. UNDER-C is a trademark of Quayle Research, Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Fidonews Page 29 13 Apr 1987 ================================================================= NOTICES ================================================================= The Interrupt Stack 27 Apr 1987 Start of the Semi-Annual DECUS (Digital Equipment Corp. Users Society) symposium, to be held in Nashville, Tennessee. 17 May 1987 Metro-Fire Fido's Second Birthday BlowOut and Floppy Disk Throwing Tournament! All Fido Sysops and Families Invited! Contact Christopher Baker at 135/14 for more information. 21 Aug 1987 Start of the Fourth International FidoNet Conference, to be held at the Radisson Mark Plaza Hotel in Alexandria, VA. Details to follow. 24 Aug 1989 Voyager 2 passes Neptune. If you have something which you would like to see on this calendar, please send a message to FidoNet node 1/1. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Fidonews Page 30 13 Apr 1987 INTERNATIONAL FIDONET ASSOCIATION ORDER FORM Publications The IFNA publications can be obtained by downloading from Fido 1/10 or other FidoNet compatible systems, or by purchasing them directly from IFNA. We ask that all our IFNA Committee Chairmen provide us with the latest versions of each publication, but we can make no written guarantees. Hardcopy prices as of October 1, 1986 IFNA Fido BBS listing $15.00 _____ IFNA Administrative Policy DOCs $10.00 _____ IFNA FidoNet Standards Committee DOCs $10.00 _____ SUBTOTAL _____ IFNA Member ONLY Special Offers System Enhancement Associates SEAdog $60.00 _____ SEAdog price as of March 1, 1987 ONLY 1 copy SEAdog per IFNA Member International orders include $5.00 for surface shipping or $15.00 for air shipping _____ SUBTOTAL _____ Mo. Residents add 5.725 % Sales tax _____ TOTAL _____ SEND CHECK OR MONEY ORDER TO: IFNA P.O. Box 41143 St. Louis, Missouri 63141 USA Name________________________________ Net/Node____/____ Company_____________________________ Address_____________________________ City____________________ State____________ Zip_____ Voice Phone_________________________ Signature___________________________ ----------------------------------------------------------------- Fidonews Page 31 13 Apr 1987 __ The World's First / \ BBS Network /|oo \ * FidoNet * (_| /_) _`@/_ \ _ | | \ \\ | (*) | \ )) ______ |__U__| / \// / Fido \ _//|| _\ / (________) (_/(_|(____/ (jm) Membership for the International FidoNet Association Membership in IFNA is open to any individual or organization that pays an annual specified membership fee. IFNA serves the international FidoNet-compatible electronic mail community to increase worldwide communications. ** Name _________________________________ Date ________ Address ______________________________ City & State _________________________ Country_______________________________ Phone (Voice) ________________________ Net/Node Number ______________________ Board Name____________________________ Phone (Data) _________________________ Baud Rate Supported___________________ Board Restrictions____________________ Special Interests_____________________ ______________________________________ ______________________________________ Is there some area where you would be willing to help out in FidoNet?_______ ______________________________________ ______________________________________ Send your membership form and a check or money order for $25 to: International FidoNet Association P. O. Box 41143 St Louis, Missouri 63141 USA Thank you for your membership! Your participation will help to insure the future of FidoNet. ** Please NOTE that IFNA is a general not-for-profit organization in formation and Articles of Association and By-Laws were adopted by the membership in January 1987. An Elections Committee has been established to fill positions outlined in the By-Laws for the Board of Directors. An IFNA Echomail Conference has been established on FidoNet to assist the Elections Committee. We welcome your input on this Conference. -----------------------------------------------------------------