Volume 2, Number 40 18 November 1985 +----------------------------------------------------------+ | _ | | / \ | | - Fidonews - /|oo \ | | (_| /_) | | Fido and Fidonet _`@/_ \ _ | | Users Group | | \ \\ | | Newsletter | (*) | \ )) | | ______ |__U__| / \// | | / FIDO \ _//|| _\ / | | (________) (_/(_|(____/ | | (jm) | +----------------------------------------------------------+ Publisher: Fido 1/1 Editor in Chief: Thom Henderson Review Editor: Matt Kanter Chief Procrastinator Emeritus: Tom Jennings Fidonews is published weekly by SEAboard, Fido 1/1. You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in Fidonews. Article submission standards are contained in the file FIDONEWS.DOC, available from Fido 1/1. Disclaimer or don't-blame-us: The contents of the articles contained here are not our responsibility, nor do we necessarily agree with them; everything here is subject to debate. We publish EVERYTHING received. Table of Contents 1. EDITORIAL In Pursuit of PCs 2. NEWS Fido Distribution List GTE Telenet's PC Pursuit HELPS BBS and Fido systems Problems with Fido Utilities on an AT Utility Programs Ripoffs revisited -- What we can do 3. COLUMNS FidoNet Route Files Explained, Part 3 4. WANTED Emporia, Kansas mailing list SBC-100; Multi-user Turbo DOS 5. FOR SALE Sand rail for desert fun! 6. NOTICES The Interrupt Stack An Apology to GTE Change in Net Number for Austin, Texas ============================================================ EDITORIAL ============================================================ In Pursuit of PCs What's the big deal, here? Maybe I'm missing something. So GTE is selling a service aimed at BBS users. So? Don't you want users to call your board? If you often call boards far away, then I'd think you'd welcome the chance to access them for a low flat rate. If you're a sysop, I'd think you'd appreciate the influx of new blood from distant places. My normal monthly phone bill is in the hundreds of dollars; I'd welcome anything that would lower it. As for our users, our board has callers from all over the country, and even from Europe, and I love it. How they manage to reach us doesn't really seem to make a difference. So how is GTE different from AT&T? After all, Ma Bell has been making tons of money off of us for years! I've lately heard a rumor that BBSers were/are the making of the "Reach Out America Plan" (after all, who else is making long distance calls at that time of night?), and nobody seems to be getting upset about it. In fact, the Fido community seems to have lovingly embraced the ROAP, since that's when netmail takes place. So why the uproar? I figure that it must be because GTE is providing a service specifically targeted at BBSers, who aren't used to it. We've always been considered a marginal market, whether we are or not. Oh, USR is offering a special deal to sysops, but that's different; it's favoritism. Everybody uses phones, and even Aunt Nellie can use ROAP on Sunday, but only BBSers will really use PC Pursuit. We're so used to being the ghetto of the computer community that I guess it's uncomfortable to realize that we've become a significant market segment. It's quite a change from being a frowned-upon bunch of hackers. ------------------------------------------------------------ Fidonews Page 2 18 Nov 1985 ============================================================ NEWS ============================================================ FIDO DISTRIBUTION LIST 6 November 1985 This list was compiled from responses to a proposal I submitted to the FIDONEWS. I know there are more distribution nodes than this, but these are the ones that responded. My thanks to those of you listed here. If you are a distribution node, and would like to be added to this list, send the relevant information to the SYSOP on 109/74 - The Bear's Den. I will release updates to this list as new distribution nodes are added. NODE NODE NAME LOCATION PHONE NUMBER Version ---- --------- -------- ------------ ------- 18/19 The Ark Tangent Tampa_FL 813-977-5347 * I 100/10 MDC_RCC, St._Louis_MO 314-232-6881 * D,I 100/22 PC LUG St._Louis_MO 314-576-2743 * D,I 100/51 DECUS Central St._Louis_MO 314-576-4129 * D,I 101/27 Dave's FIDO Gardner_MA 617-632-1861 * All 101/106 NewWorld Magic1 Swampscott_MA 617-595-5626 * I 106/343 PC-Interconnect Houston_TX 713-955-8120 I 109/456 FIDO-FHLMC Washington_DC 202-789-5090 I 109/483 Wash-A-RUG Fairfax_VA 703-359-6549 D,I 109/603 NET-EXCHANGE Reston_VA 703-689-3561 I 124/12 Inside Track Ed Plano_TX 214-422-4772 I 125/1 Fido's Board San_Francisco_CA 415-864-1418 * All 125/521 Satore Center San_Francisco_CA 415-647-8528 I,V 128/10 The Three Laws Colorado_Spgs_CO 303-574-1110 I 129/11 TACO Sanyo Fido Trafford_PA 412-856-1428 S 132/107 M'Cycle Bytes Amherst_NH 603-889-3366 * All 135/14 Metro-Fire Fido Miami_FL 305-596-8611 I,S * Supports 2400 Baud FIDO Version: I[BM], D[EC], V[ICTOR], S[ANYO] This version of the list was squeezed a bit, to allow it to fit into the FIDONEWS format. If you would like a full 80 column copy of this list, it may be downloaded from either FIDO 109/74 (The Bear's Den), or FIDO 109/483 (Wash-A-RUG). ------------------------------------------------------------ Fidonews Page 3 18 Nov 1985 Cliff Cummings PC Pursuit Fido Nov. 8, 1985 GTE Telenet's PC Pursuit HELPS BBS and Fido systems Regarding an article written in last weeks'Fidonews, (11/4/85), GTE TELENET HAS PAID THE $100 FEE TO TOM JENNINGS FOR COMMERCIAL USE OF FIDO. This payment was made a month BEFORE the article appeared in which the author mistakenly accused GTE Telenet of copyright infringement. Payment was made as soon as the required fee and address were clarified with the release of Fido version 11. GTE Telenet is pleased to be using the Fido software to run the User Guide for PC Pursuit -- probably one of the only 800 BBS numbers in the country (It's great - try it! 800-835-3001). We found the Fido software to be very helpful in giving users information about Pursuit; Fido is easy to install, maintain, and easy to use. Unfortunately, the author of the article last week alledges that PC Pursuit was established to exploit BBS's/sysops and to exploit Fido. AU CONTRAIRE! GTE Telenet developed PC Pursuit because the market for PC communications is growing rapidly and there are hundreds of thousands of modem users who want to communicate long-distance but could not cost- effectively do so prior to PC Pursuit. Ask most sysops and PC modem users if they would like to have unlimited long- distance access to any phone number in major cities for just $25 per month (evenings and weekends - which is 67% of the 168 hours in a week). The answer is a resounding YES. Response to PC Pursuit has been tremendous -- we get thousands of calls for service each week. Most sysops also welcome calls from far away places since this brings in new and interesting users and files. Since we began the Fido BBS as a User Guide for PC Pursuit, we have also had many inquiries about Fido and how others can set up their own Fido BBS's or access other Fido systems. We have recommended many users to check with Tom Jennings BBS in Calif. and to access various other Fido systems, and we will continue to recommend Fido as a well designed BBS and networking system. GTE Telenet's PC Pursuit currently services 12 major cities across the U.S., but expansion will soon occur to many more cities throughout 1986. For more information about PC Pursuit, call a GTE Telenet representative at 800-368-4215, or call our Fido BBS User Guide at 800-835-3001. (Cliff Cummings, sysop of PC Pursuit User Guide Fido) ------------------------------------------------------------ Fidonews Page 4 18 Nov 1985 I've only been running a Fido for a few months, but something I have run into again and again are utilitys that will not run properly if at all on my system. (an IBM AT) Nothing against the people that create the utilitys and make them available to the SysOps at large, but it would be very nice if the sources for some of these were made available so they could be re-compiled on systems that have problems with the supplied binarys. For general information, the primary offenders seem to be programs that are written in compiled Basic. The earlier versions of the compiler are known to have problems on the AT, later versions are supposed to be corrected. Also, it would be nice if more of the SysOps would make it known when they run into a program or combination of utilitys that interfere with each other. An example, TIMELOG.EXE will not run properly on my system if GRAPHICS.COM is loaded. A minor annoyance I'll admit, but I have a number of other programs that depend on the Graphics module being loaded so it's a frequent occurance. Please don't think that I'm saying this just to be a pest or to vent my frustrations, but I can't believe that I'm the only person that have had these problems. By the way, this whole tirade was prompted when I discovered that the current version of NODELIST.EXE will not run to completion on my system apparently due to the fact that it is written in compiled Basic. I may be moving the system to a different computer in the near future, so this may all become academic bafore this is read, but I figured that it should be said. Thanks - Jim Willing Fido 105/11 ------------------------------------------------------------ Fidonews Page 5 18 Nov 1985 Date: 11 Nov 85 From: David Drexler/Mark Grennan, sysops Fido 19/202 Subject: Utility Programs We have written two programs that the rest of you out in Fidoland may find as useful as we have. They are dblside and mdmctrl. Dblside (double-side) lets you prints doc files on both sides of the paper; especially useful for lonnng text files, like the Fido newletters and other documentation. Mdmctrl (modem-control) outputs whatever arguments you give it on the command line, to the modem. We use it in the bbs batch file to make the modem go off-hook while we're "opping the sys" so that anyone trying to dial in gets a busy, and doesn't wonder whether our board has died. Both programs are written in the CI-C86 flavor of C. Dblside ought to compile under most anybody's compiler, as it doesn't do anything particularly fancy, but mdmctrl diddles the interrupts and may have to be hacked to compile under another compiler. These programs are available in both source-code and execu- table form, and may be downloaded from our system. New users on our bbs are required to register before downloading or entering messages; we'll get you updated within 48 hours (usually less than that, but not always!) REMARK Information System (405) 728-2463 The board for serious computerists ------------------------------------------------------------ Fidonews Page 6 18 Nov 1985 Chuck Bigham Fido 138/27 RIPOFFS REVISITED -- WHAT WE CAN DO The issues raised by Paula Giese in Fidonews 2/38 are important ones that should be taken to heart by all BBS users. The service that GTE is offering is one that on the outside appears to benefit all users. By providing an opportunity for users in the East to develop an access route to users in the West GTE is hooking up boards all across the country and speeding the spread of information to all of us. But the question remains: Can the corporate sector use members of the private sector for profit, when the private sector doesn't want to be used? And more importantly: Are we in the private sector, who already provide such a service for much less going to stand by and let it happen? Unfortunately, we can not do much. The big money interests in this country have the private individual pretty much at a disadvantage. But there are things we can do. First, sysops in the areas covered by PC Pursuit should call the information board at 1-800-835-3001 (which, by the way, is using Fido version 11 and has the temerity to call itself Node 1 / Net 1) and ask for the BBS listing. If your board is on the list, leave a message to the sysop asking them to take it off. Many of these boards are Fido's, if we withdrew our support, they would have that much less to offer. The second, and most important thing, that Fido users can do, and this means every user, not just sysops, is education. Over 8,000 people had called the PC Pursuit board the night I called. I don't know how many of them signed up, but if only half of them did, that's 4,000 people who didn't know about Fido. Let's face it, to make PC Pursuit worthwhile, you'd have to send 100 messages a month. Even on the Fido I use, which charges a small access fee, I'd have to make 475 calls in a four month period to make the monthly charge and hook-up pay off. And note, there are only the 10 cities that PC Pursuit can access, not the whole country as I can on Fido. If more of the 8,000 callers knew this, PC Pursuit would be out of business and Fido-Net would be booming. Educating the general computer community about Fido is easy. Just talk it up to anyone you know with a computer. Every BBS, not just Fido boards, should have a bulletin on it about PC Pursuit and its cost effective alternative, Fido-Net. Make sure local computer stores know the number for the Fido boards in the area, because people who are Fidonews Page 7 18 Nov 1985 new to town naturally inquire about that sort of thing first at a store. These things are at best a stop gap, as anyone who has ever tried to fight a big company knows. And there will always be people who need the kind of service that PC Pursuit offers, and the ones who will demand to pay the most for a service, believing in the lie that it has to be expensive to be good. But the vast majority of the people will come quickly to see that user-supported BBSs, like the local boards where I live and the national Fido-Net, are where the true spirit of cooperation and friendship lie. Chuck Bigham Pullman Area Bulletin Board System Fido 138/27 ------------------------------------------------------------ Fidonews Page 8 18 Nov 1985 ============================================================ COLUMNS ============================================================ FidoNet Route Files Explained Part 3 -- Keep the Old, Ring In the New by Ben Baker, Fido 100/76 Last week we looked at the basic routing statements that have been with us since version 7 or so. Now let's look at what's been added in version 11. Please refer back to last weeks definitions. I con- tinue to use them as defined. RECV-ONLY This tells Fido "Go ahead and build packets for any targets in the SCHEDULE command's , but DON'T ATTEMPT TO CALL ANYBODY. If any targets happen to call in for any reason, try to give them their packets before they get away." There MUST be a for this statement to mean anything. It is not intended for normally "receive only" schedules like 202/0's collection schedule (see last week). Instead, it prevents you from originating calls during schedules when you are trying to SEND mail. (Route files control how you send mail, not how you receive it.) You are really trying to send mail on the other guy's nickel, but as you will see, he has to cooperate in that venture. This statement might be used by the locals during the collection schedule in a large, busy net. Collisions are avoided because there's only one node, the outbound host, placing calls. He POLLs (see below) the locals for their outgoing traffic. HOLD "OK, Fido, build packets for targets in the , but don't attempt to actually call any targets in ." This is a limited "RECV-ONLY" command. Any packets for targets not in will be sent normally (if they haven't been picked up), but packets for have to be "picked up." There's a hidden gimmick here that bears further exploration. Ken Kaplan (Fido 100/22 AKA 1/0) is the original source in the national nodelist distribution system. Regional coordinators call his Fido each week to pick up copies of the latest nodelist. The route file for his national window contains the statement "HOLD ." Fido will not attempt to send any packets targetted for a regional coordinator. Does this mean that he can't send "normal" messages to the Fidonews Page 9 18 Nov 1985 coordinators? Not at all. Because he is a member of net 100, all his "normal" messages, including those addressed to the coordinators, wind up in a packet targetted for 100/10, the outbound host. Since 100/10 is not in the , that packet is sent and the messages go out. HOLD APPLIES TO THE TARGETS OF PACKETS, NOT TO THE ADDRESSEES OF MESSAGES! It is only when Ken sends messages to the coordinators with the nodelist (or other files) attached to them that Fido builds packets targetted for them instead of 100/10. Does that mean that Ken can't send the coordinators other files without waiting for them to pick them up? Well, yes and no. Because of the HOLD statement, he can't say send FIDO_IBM.EXE to 14/61 (see PICK-UP below for why 14/61 and not 14/0). But he can use another gimmick. The coordinators have dual identities (set by the '4' command of Fido) and he can certainly send a file to 14/0. Fido is smart, but so smart he'll notice that 14/0 and 14/61 happen to have the same phone number. He'll send the packet for 14/0 and hold the one for 14/61. By the same token, if both packets are still present when 14/61 calls in, he'll only pick up the the nodelist targetted for 14/61 and not the new Fido targetted for 14/0. (You can't have your cake and eat it too.) PICKUP Whenever any other Fido calls your Fido for any reason, your Fido looks to see if there is a packet targetted for him. If there is, your Fido will try to deliver it then and there and avoid making the phone call which you have to pay for. Without this statement (or the next one) in his route file, the other Fido will simply hang up on you, leaving you with a phone call to make in order to deliver your packet. This statement says to Fido "If you happen to call any target in , hang around to see if he has mail for me." This is a two-edged sword. It can speed up mail exchange, but the Fido that places the call pays for it. It works best within a local net where the calls are all toll free anyway. In fact, it won't work at all between larger nets supported by distinct inbound and outbound hosts. Specifying "PICKUP 100/0" in your national window schedule would only get you messages originating on 100/0 (or 100/51 actually) with files attached. Any other mail for you might be in a packet addressed to you, but on 100/10, the outbound host, and that's not who you called. Even worse, let's say Tom Jennings is sending a file to 100/10 and wants to pick up any mail from St. Louis for San Francisco while he's at it. He's the host of net 125, and that's perfectly legitimate, right? Wrong! His primary identity (the '4' command again) is 125/1 and 100/10 may have a packet for 125/0, but he won't have a packet for 125/1. This command deals at the packet/target level just as the HOLD command does. Furthermore, it deals with real Fidonews Page 10 18 Nov 1985 identities, not alternate identities. As I said, this is most useful within a local net, and that's where it probably should be applied. POLL This tells Fido "Even if I don't have any mail for the targets in generate empty packets addressed to them so you have an excuse to call them. Then when you do call them, pick anything they have for me." "POLL " implies "PICKUP " which need not be specified. This is the statement an outbound host might use to poll his locals or hubs for outgoing traffic prior to national mail time. Together with the next statement, this method can be very efficient. The regional coordinators run a special schedule each Saturday morning during the national mail window. It's route file is identical to their normal national schedule route file except that it contains the statement "POLL 1/0." That's how they get the nodelist for subsequent redis- tribution. As I see it, POLL has a lot more uses than PICKUP. SEND-ONLY This one is mainly for outbound hosts. It says "I'm not expecting any mail during this schedule, so don't wait the normal one or two minutes for incomming calls after making an outgoing call. As soon as you finish one, dial another until all packets have been sent." As I said above, this can be very efficient, but there's a problem you need to be aware of. Fido will make a maximum of 30 attempts without connect to send a packet to a particular target. If you have only one packet addressed to a busy target, Fido would normally take about an hour to use up 30 attempts, but in SEND-ONLY mode he can attempt 30 calls in about 20 minutes! If you have a Courier and are running it in "X4" response code mode, he'll make 30 attempts in 10 to 15 minutes. (The Courier doesn't waste a lot of time in "fast-dial, busy-detect" mode.) If you're an outbound host and want to try SEND-ONLY during the national window, you risk using up your call attempts while your target is busiest, then when he's quieted down and you could get through, you've given up! I suggest you break your national time into two schedules, and only use SEND-ONLY during the last 20 minutes or so of the national window. On the other hand, polling your locals or hubs is a different matter. They should be in RECV-ONLY mode and you can expect every call to connect the first try. The call attempt limit doesn't apply to this situation and the SEND- Fidonews Page 11 18 Nov 1985 ONLY command should be used to shorten the time needed to POLL everyone. NO-ROUTE This command tells Fido "Do not send messages addressed to these nodes anywhere but to the addressed nodes. Treat them as though they have files attached, whether they do or not." This lets you say things like Fido 100/76 (in Illinois) might: SEND-TO 100/10 ; Outbound Host (in Missouri) ROUTE-TO 100/10 ALL ; Send everything to accross the river NO-ROUTE 100/482 ; Except other Illinois traffic The only other way to achieve this end is to list in the ROUTE-TO command all 500 odd nodes whose messages should be routed to 100/10, and that list changes every week! Now you should have a good handle on how the commands used in ROUTE. control how Fido SENDS files during schedule . But sometimes these commands require very long lists of node numbers which change from week to week as the node list changes. LISTGEN 2 will generate the route files automatically and let you specify the long lists symbolically in terms of nets, area codes, etc.. Next week in the last part of this series, we'll see how the statements in LISTGEN's ROUTE.CTL file correspond to the commands in ROUTE.. ------------------------------------------------------------ Fidonews Page 12 18 Nov 1985 ============================================================ WANTED ============================================================ Jim Compton NET 14 / NODE 386 Readers of FIDO NEWS: I am looking for a person or Company that can supply me with direct mailing list for the Emporia, Kansas area. I would like the information to contain at least NAME ADDRESS, PHONE #, CITY, ZIP. Additional Information that would be helpful would include HOME OWNER, and OCCUPATION. If anyone knows where I may obtain this information they can contact me at NET 14/NODE 386 or my mailing address: Jim Compton 905 Thompson Emporia, Ks 66801 Happy Thanksgiving!!!! ------------------------------------------------------------ Fidonews Page 13 18 Nov 1985 GENE BUCKLE ON FIDO 138/3. I AM LOOKING FOR A SIERRA DATA SCIENCES (SBC-100) SLAVE PROCESSOR AND I NEED TO GET IT ASAP. I AM ALSO LOOKING FOR MULTI-USER TURBO DOS. PLEASE SEND A NOTE TO FIDO 138/3 IF YOU HAVE OR KNOW SOMEONE THAT HAS ANY OF THE ABOVE. THANK YOU. GENE BUCKLE FIDO 138/3 ------------------------------------------------------------ Fidonews Page 14 18 Nov 1985 ============================================================ FOR SALE ============================================================ FOR SALE: Sand rail with Chenowith frame, Corvair engine (tri- ported heads). Extra parts. Couple of transmissions. Frame alone worth $2000. Great for sand dunes--as in Yuma, AZ. (But I moved to Seattle, WA) Might consider trade for ski or sail boat. Asking $3000. Send FIDO-NET to SYSOP of FIDO 138/3 (or 17/0). --Steve Butler, Region 17 Coordinator (138/3) ------------------------------------------------------------ Fidonews Page 15 18 Nov 1985 ============================================================ NOTICES ============================================================ The Interrupt Stack 23 Nov 1985 European sysop conference -- Utrecht, The Netherlands. Contact node 3101 for details. 27 Nov 1985 Halley's Comet passes closest to Earth before perihelion. 9 Dec 1985 DECUS Anaheim. The first session (Roadmap session) of the PC Special Interest Group will meet at 11:30 in the PC Campground (Bonita Tower, Santa Cruz room). See you there... 24 Jan 1986 Voyager 2 passes Uranus. 9 Feb 1986 Halley's Comet reaches perihelion. 9 Feb 1986 Diana Overholt (109/74) has another birthday. 11 Apr 1986 Halley's Comet reaches perigee. 19 May 1986 Steve Lemke's next birthday. 24 Aug 1989 Voyager 2 passes Neptune. If you have something which you would like to see on this calendar, please send a message to Fido 1/1. ------------------------------------------------------------ Tom Jennings Fido 125/1 While madly typing away at my article last week, I made a somewhat misleading statement about GTE Telenet, something to the effect that I doubted whether GTE had really paid for the Fido they use. Simply put, GTE has paid for their Fido, as previously mentioned. Fidonews Page 16 18 Nov 1985 I have always assumed that things I wrote here were "all in the family", that only FidoNet sysops and users read this junk, like being able to walk into your own living room naked. However, unbeknownst to me, there were guests in the living room! ------------------------------------------------------------ Change in NET for Austin and Central Texas Communications As of Nov 15, the only net for the Austin, Texas metropolitan area is net 136, The Central Texas Professional Communications Net (CenTex_ProComm). This net was originally a small group specializing in computer communications, but has become the only active Austin net. The net consists of nodes from the former net 103, region 19 and several new nodes. Those active nodes who formerly had a node number elsewhere have kept the same node number, but are now in net 136. New nodes are being assigned numbers starting with 200. This should be the last change in this area, and net communications for this area can now stabilize. If you have any questions regarding this net, Or any communications related problems, please contact the host board: KYFHO WILDLIFE 136/600 (512)836-6881 Bob Hanes Sysop KYFHO Wildlife ------------------------------------------------------------ Fidonews Page 17 18 Nov 1985