;Date 03 Nov 92 03:03:00 From: Pablo Kleinman@1:102/631 To: Tom Jennings@1:125/111 Subject: Candidacy Options: private ;Status: recv'd (read 2 times) ;PID: FM+ 2.11.b6 ;TZUTC -0800 ;MSGID: 1:102/631@fidonet 9a02b2db * Original to: Don Dawson (1:141/730) Hiya, Don. Well... I've read yesterday's FidoNews and he (Clovis Lacerda) did it. He played his last card in this long and foolish game, leaving me with no choice but to fax my attorney in S„o Paulo tomorrow a copy of the article to see what he thinks. This is one in long series of attacks within Brazil and the last one I'm willing to take. I'm exhausted; I've put a lot of time into FidoNet but it's already more than it's worth. I will be sending in an article with what I believe is the truth (i.e. Lacerda is lying), and I will proceed to file a policy complaint against this bastard for the biggest case of defamation I have yet witnessed within FidoNet. I had put up my name to cover as ZC until next June and proposing the adoption of down-up elections in Zone 1 and knowing that even without that proposal I wouldn't get chosen. My idea, as I mentioned to you originally, was to just have that proposal on the table when the RCs chose George's replacement, hoping the winner would choose to implement it. However, now even if offered to be ZC on a salary I wouldn't take it. I'm burnt out. Plus I don't want folks without scruples like Lacerda (quite oddly, "la cerda" in Spanish means "the pig"... don't ask me what I think about that) using it as an excuse for a power grab that was never in mind. Hope you understand, Don, why I'm taking a break from the kitchen. Of the ones we were back then, Steve Bonine and Felix Kasza, both good chaps, are long gone. My time has come, but I will remain in FidoNet, involved in all the fun, techie part, and keeping in touch with the old friends I made throughout the world. The time for idealism and politics is over, at least for me and for a while. Please remove my name from the list of prospective Z1Cs and you can copy this message to Z1REGCON if you feel it gives the adequate explanation for my withdrawal. Take care, -Pablo pablito@fido.lu ;Date 03 Nov 92 12:44:32 From: Tom Jennings@1:125/111 To: uucp@1:125/555 Subject: That fucking pablo Options: kill-sent ;Status: (read 1 times) ;INTL 1:125/555 1:125/111 ;PID ReadMail ;MSGID 1:125/111 2AF67430 to: randy@psg.com I know you don't care, but this is potentially trouble, and I thought I'd inform you that Pablo is implying legal action against Clovis over that goddamned article. I've included Pablos msg to me below, I'll arrange that there's blank spaces so yo don't even have to look at it -- type "K" and kill it. I mention this because you and I both know he'll drag as many people as he can into this. I have not responded to this message, nor will I, though I considered sending a copy to Clovis out of courtesy. I have not done this however. The message follows this line. ;Date 03 Nov 92 03:03:00 From: Pablo Kleinman@1:102/631 To: Tom Jennings@1:125/111 Subject: Candidacy Options: private ;Status: recv'd (read 2 times) * Original to: Don Dawson (1:141/730) Hiya, Don. Well... I've read yesterday's FidoNews and he (Clovis Lacerda) did it. He played his last card in this long and foolish game, leaving me with no choice but to fax my attorney in S„o Paulo tomorrow a copy of the article to see what he thinks. This is one in long series of attacks within Brazil and the last one I'm willing to take. I'm exhausted; I've put a lot of time into FidoNet but it's already more than it's worth. I will be sending in an article with what I believe is the truth (i.e. Lacerda is lying), and I will proceed to file a policy complaint against this bastard for the biggest case of defamation I have yet witnessed within FidoNet. I had put up my name to cover as ZC until next June and proposing the adoption of down-up elections in Zone 1 and knowing that even without that proposal I wouldn't get chosen. My idea, as I mentioned to you originally, was to just have that proposal on the table when the RCs chose George's replacement, hoping the winner would choose to implement it. However, now even if offered to be ZC on a salary I wouldn't take it. I'm burnt out. Plus I don't want folks without scruples like Lacerda (quite oddly, "la cerda" in Spanish means "the pig"... don't ask me what I think about that) using it as an excuse for a power grab that was never in mind. Hope you understand, Don, why I'm taking a break from the kitchen. Of the ones we were back then, Steve Bonine and Felix Kasza, both good chaps, are long gone. My time has come, but I will remain in FidoNet, involved in all the fun, techie part, and keeping in touch with the old friends I made throughout the world. The time for idealism and politics is over, at least for me and for a while. Please remove my name from the list of prospective Z1Cs and you can copy this message to Z1REGCON if you feel it gives the adequate explanation for my withdrawal. Take care, -Pablo pablito@fido.lu --- ReadMail * Origin: tomj@fidosw.fidonet.org / World Power Systems (1:125/111) ;Date 03 Nov 92 12:44:32 From: Tom Jennings@1:125/111 To: uucp@1:125/555 Subject: That fucking pablo Options: kill-sent ;Status: IN-TRANSIT (read 5 times) ;INTL 1:125/555 1:125/111 ;PID ReadMail ;MSGID 1:125/111 2AF67430 to: randy@psg.com I know you don't care, but this is potentially trouble, and I thought I'd inform you that Pablo is implying legal action against Clovis over that goddamned article. I've included Pablos msg to me below, I'll arrange that there's blank spaces so yo don't even have to look at it -- type "K" and kill it. I mention this because you and I both know he'll drag as many people as he can into this. I have not responded to this message, nor will I, though I considered sending a copy to Clovis out of courtesy. I have not done this however. The message follows this line. ;Date 03 Nov 92 03:03:00 From: Pablo Kleinman@1:102/631 To: Tom Jennings@1:125/111 Subject: Candidacy Options: private ;Status: recv'd (read 2 times) * Original to: Don Dawson (1:141/730) Hiya, Don. Well... I've read yesterday's FidoNews and he (Clovis Lacerda) did it. He played his last card in this long and foolish game, leaving me with no choice but to fax my attorney in S„o Paulo tomorrow a copy of the article to see what he thinks. This is one in long series of attacks within Brazil and the last one I'm willing to take. I'm exhausted; I've put a lot of time into FidoNet but it's already more than it's worth. I will be sending in an article with what I believe is the truth (i.e. Lacerda is lying), and I will proceed to file a policy complaint against this bastard for the biggest case of defamation I have yet witnessed within FidoNet. I had put up my name to cover as ZC until next June and proposing the adoption of down-up elections in Zone 1 and knowing that even without that proposal I wouldn't get chosen. My idea, as I mentioned to you originally, was to just have that proposal on the table when the RCs chose George's replacement, hoping the winner would choose to implement it. However, now even if offered to be ZC on a salary I wouldn't take it. I'm burnt out. Plus I don't want folks without scruples like Lacerda (quite oddly, "la cerda" in Spanish means "the pig"... don't ask me what I think about that) using it as an excuse for a power grab that was never in mind. Hope you understand, Don, why I'm taking a break from the kitchen. Of the ones we were back then, Steve Bonine and Felix Kasza, both good chaps, are long gone. My time has come, but I will remain in FidoNet, involved in all the fun, techie part, and keeping in touch with the old friends I made throughout the world. The time for idealism and politics is over, at least for me and for a while. Please remove my name from the list of prospective Z1Cs and you can copy this message to Z1REGCON if you feel it gives the adequate explanation for my withdrawal. Take care, -Pablo pablito@fido.lu --- ReadMail * Origin: tomj@fidosw.fidonet.org / World Power Systems (1:125/111) ;Date 07 Nov 92 14:41:06 From: Pablo Kleinman@1:102/631 To: Tom Jennings@1:125/111 File-Send: COCALOCA.ART Options: private ;Status: recv'd (read 2 times) ;MSGID: 1:102/631@fidonet 9c0ea2ab ;PID: FM+ 2.11.b6 ;TZUTC -0800 ;FLAGS DIR ... Since you allowed Clovis Lacerda to unload his bag of rubbish on last week's snooze, I very much hope you will let me and all the other attacked parties to defend ourselves at least once in the full-distribution FidoNews. I have been defamed in a big way by that article, and so have a few other sysops. I expect a chance to defend myself, especially since in this case Clovis has not produced a single verifiable truth. Thank you. -Pablo pablito@fido.lu ;Date 09 Nov 92 15:21:00 From: Tom Jennings@1:125/111 To: don dawson@1:141/730 Subject: Pablo as Z1C... Options: kill-sent private ;Status: (read 5 times) ;INTL 1:141/730 1:125/111 ;PID ReadMail ;MSGID 1:125/111 2AFE81DD Private communication, please don't forward! It is my opinion that Pablo Kleinman is one of the LEAST qualified people to be Z1C! He is a megalomaniac. He harrasses and distorts to get his way. I don't know if you saw what he did with his latest "worldPol" thing, but he added many peoples names against their will. I mean, I and others told him specifically that I did NOT support his document and to take my name OFF; a year later it was added (or not removed in the first place) and he ran it in FidoNews. To him, the ends justify the means. This is not the sort of person I want in that position. I have no stake whatsoever, nor even care about his and Clovis' troubles in Z4. I think they are *all* idiots. I have been forced to deal with Pablo over the last few years, and he ain't no saint. It terrifies me to think he might be considered for Z1C. Can you tell me if he's actually being seriously considered?! --- ReadMail * Origin: tomj@fidosw.fidonet.org / World Power Systems (1:125/111) ;Date 09 Nov 92 15:30:25 From: tomj@1:125/111 To: uucp@1:125/555 Subject: holeyfuckenshit Options: kill-sent ;Status: (read 3 times) ;INTL 1:125/555 1:125/111 ;PID ReadMail ;MSGID 1:125/111 2AFE8411 to: randy@psg.com HOLEY SHIT. Did you know that Pablo is being considered for Z1C?!!!!!!! I'll get the fuck out of here! I've sent queries to David Garrett and Don Dawson both. * Original: FROM.....David Garrett (103/501) * Original: TO.......All (125/222) * Forwarded by.......OPUS 125/222 Date: Thu Oct 29 1992 23:36:44 From: Pablo Kleinman of 1:102/631@fidonet To: Don Dawson of 1:141/730 Subj: Temporary Z1C Attr: privileged recvd NETMAIL 99 ------------------------------- FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION: ----------------------- Pablo Kleinman 1:102/631 FidoNet Experience: ------------------- Joined in 1987 Ex-NC 1:368/0 (for about a year in 1987-88) Ex-RC 1:60/0 (until May 12, 1989) (*) Ex-ZC 4:4/0 (until June 1, 1991) Sysop 1:102/631 since June 1991 (*) Region 60 was later transferred to the then newly-created Zone 4, and renamed as Region 90. Goals: ------ 1+ To propose to the IC an amendment exclusive to Zone 1 (as provided in Policy4) to replace the current election procedures with a transitional democratic down-up system: . Local sysops elect NCs . NCs elect RCs . RCs elect ZC 2+ To establish a more reliable method for the worldwide update of the nodelist (currently, some zones don't get updated for weeks sometimes). 3+ To clean up the zonegate mess by establishing good, strong links with the other zones, for so long neglected. In items 2 and 3 I have experience and a good record. It's not just promises but something that would be achieved within a month or else you have my resignation. Item 1 will depend on how much collaboration I can get from you and the IC. Self-evaluation: Pros: ----- 2-year experience as ZC, compiling the zone segment and the master nodelist and dealing with the other ZCs. Know and performed all the ZC tasks for 2 years with a terrific record of approval by the other *Cs and sysops in general. I rarely make decisions on my own, but rather in consultation with the RCs. Cons: ----- You'd have to pick a new ZC next year cuz I wouldn't run again after the stated goals are achieved. I presume I'm a controversial character for some, and this could eventually mean more noise than the usual, plus I'd require each of you to participate in a Region Coordinator Council (RCC) that would take over the non-technical functions of the ZC at the Zone level. Regards, -Pablo pablito@fido.lu Date: Fri Oct 30 1992 19:48:15 From: Don Dawson To: Y'all Subj: John says... Attr: rgn10 ------------------------------- Date: Fri Oct 30 1992 06:41:50 From: John Summers of 1:124/4103@fidonet.org To: Don Dawson of 1:141/730 Subj: Temporary ZC position Attr: privileged crash recvd NETMAIL 99 ------------------------------- * Original to: Don Dawson at 1:141/730 CC'd to: David Garrett, Mark Lynch, Bryan Hochberg, Bill Andrus, Tim Pearson, Marv Carson, Don Dawson, Bob Satti, Ben Mann, Bob Davis Hello Don, In a message on Oct 27 at 20:16, you wrote: DD> Because some of you are relative unknowns to the current RC's, you're DD> welcome to netmail me (or all the RC's) a summary of your DD> qualifications. If you netmail only me, I'll put your message into DD> Z1REGCON. Is it possible for me to get access to this conference for the period of the election/selection? DD> Bob Davis has suggested the following: DD> If you're running for ZC, then I'd like to hear something from you and DD> about you. What's your agenda for ZC? What's your experience in DD> fidonet? How long have you been an RC? By now most of you have received my original message of a few days ago. To expand on that a little, I would like to talk briefly about some of the concerns that I have heard expressed. Several items have been "on the agenda" for several years without much happening. I would like to initiate a LOT of discussion on an ECHOMail Policy as well as an update to Policy4. Times are changing and we need to keep abreast of the phenomonal growth taking place in our hobby. One of the biggest concerns I hear from all over the country is lack of "elections". I am sure that some of these concerns are voiced because some of the SYSOP's making the statements are not aware of what is happening in FIDONET other what is happening in his/her particualr NET. I think I mentioned most of my experience in my previous message but will go through the highlites once more - An original participant in FIDONET (when there were only Nodes) NC of NET 124 (the original "Host") NC of NET 388 NEC of NET 388 (coincided with being NC of this small net) RC Region 19 RC Region 11 I held the FIRST election for RC to replace myself as RC19. Subsequentially, Region 11 used the same rules to elect their next RC (me). The ZC at the time was in Region 11 and had followed our RC19 election closely to see how sucessful it was. The length of time (total) as an RC was 16 months with only about a month between RC19 and being elected as RC11. DD> guess you'd say that my vote is subject to influence. And, if this doesn't influence you (or any of you for that matter) you can feel FREE to call me at 1-800-899-3585 for specific questions or if you just want to chat... John Date: Mon Nov 02 1992 19:03:29 From: Don Dawson To: David Garrett Subj: Z1CTEMP candidates Attr: privileged recvd rgn10 ------------------------------- * Original to: David Garrett at 1:103/501 CC'd to: George Peace, Mark Lynch, Bryan Hochberg, Bill Andrus, Tim Pearson, Marv Carson, Bob Satti, Ben Mann, Bob Davis, Chris Baker John Summers of 1:124/4103 Henry Clark of 1:124/6119 Christopher Baker of 1:374/14 Jesse David Hollington of 1:225/1.1 Bob Satti of 1:153/6 Tim Pearson of 1:286/703 Pablo Kleinman of 1:102/631@fidonet I've not received any additions or other feedback, however, the deadline is still 5 days away. How about a voting procedure? May I suggest this, due to the # of candidates: . Each RC send me netmail with their vote and a password, beginning 11/9 . The 'winner' is the candidate receiving 50% + 1 of the ballots cast. . If no candidate receives the required number, the 3 top candidates will participate in a run-off. How's that? Thanks. B-) Don --- msgedsq/2 2.1a --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Mount_Silverthorn (1:103/501) SEEN-BY: 10/8 102/742 103/121 501 119/177 125/7 9 10 15 17 20 24 28 30 SEEN-BY: 125/32 33 34 35 37 41 50 52 53 55 56 57 58 66 69 77 81 86 95 98 SEEN-BY: 125/102 104 110 111 121 122 190 191 209 221 222 236 258 555 143/27 SEEN-BY: 161/42 202/701 203/23 204/501 205/12 206/2501 208/100 209/209 SEEN-BY: 210/11 211/31 212/5 213/213 215/215 216/21 345/9 ;;;;PATH: 125/222 ;Date 09 Nov 92 15:31:14 From: Tom Jennings@1:125/111 To: david garrett@1:103/501 Subject: Pablo as Z1C?! Options: kill-sent ;Status: (read 2 times) ;INTL 1:103/501 1:125/111 ;PID ReadMail ;MSGID 1:125/111 2AFE8442 Is it really true that Pablo Kleinman is being seriously considered for Z1C? I can hardly think of anyone worse! He is a complete magalomniac, and a conniver. He acted very, very unethically with his "WorldPol" doc, adding on names of people who SPECIFICALLY told him to remove their names. This war with Clovis in Z4 is another added attraction. (I think they are *all* idiots, I have no stake nor care in it.) He has been a troublemaker for years. I have had to cut off communications with him; he would not back off when I wouldn't help him or agree with him. He harrasses those who won't further his goals, whatever they are. The problem is, he *has* goals of his own for the zone. Namely, getting his policy in there. Whatever flaws George Peace had, he kept a pretty good hands-off approach most of the time, and let troubles be settled locally. (I have no interaction with George other than occasional netmail over things we were in together otherwise. I am not in "George's camp", if he even has one.) Can you tell me whether or not Pablo is really being seriously considered?! --- ReadMail * Origin: tomj@fidosw.fidonet.org / World Power Systems (1:125/111) ;Date 09 Nov 92 23:25:19 From: Uucp@1:105/42 To: Tomj@1:125/111 Subject: Re: holeyfuckenshit Options: private ;Status: (read 2 times) From m2xenix!rain.psg.com!randy From: randy@psg.com (Randy Bush) To: tomj@f111.n125.z1.fidonet.org (tomj) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 16:57:35 PST Cc: Matt.Whelan@f1.n3.z3.fidonet.org (Matt Whelan) > HOLEY SHIT. Did you know that Pablo is being considered for > Z1C?!!!!!!! I'll get the fuck out of here! O h , m y g o d ! ! ! > John Summers of 1:124/4103 > Henry Clark of 1:124/6119 > Christopher Baker of 1:374/14 > Jesse David Hollington of 1:225/1.1 > Bob Satti of 1:153/6 ---- I'll quit > Tim Pearson of 1:286/703 > Pablo Kleinman of 1:102/631@fidonet ---- I'll quit Dunno about the rest. ;Via 1:105/42, 8:27:59 UTC, November 10, 1992 - Rts v1.57 ;Date 09 Nov 92 21:21:41 From: Clovis Lacerda@4:80/0 To: Tom Jennings@1:1/1 Subject: fidonews. That's it. Options: private ;Status: IN-TRANSIT recv'd (read 3 times) ;INTL 1:1/1 4:80/0 ;MSGID: 4:80/0@fidonet.org 9d153e80 ;PID: FM 2.02 Dear Tom, I knew the reactions of Pablo's supporters would be that big. He actually asked his followers to send articles to Fidonews, something I could do, but in respect to you, I will not send anything. I just want to thank you for your attention. My article was most of it supported by evidences from Fidonews, while Pablo's was his wonderful speech, as I have predicted. I am sick tired of it. Gustavo run away of Fidonet after impeached. I am doing the same right now. I got married and my wife is expecting a baby. Great part of my salary is spent in this hobby that gives us gifts like these ones. I will probably keep my node number as a BBS and install a UUCP gateway here. You may find me in Internet, where politics doesn't exist (I got my node and dont' even know who my "ZC" is). Yes, in this point he is right. I wanted to be the ZC to make a great work in Z4. But I didn't know I was going to find someone like him. He is crazy. Thank you very much. Clovis ;Via FMail 4:80/0, Mon 9 Nov 1992 22:08 ;Via 1:105/42, 10:19:13 UTC, November 10, 1992 - Rts v1.57 ;Via QM 1:105/42, Tue Nov 10 01:19 (v1.30/b29) ;Via 1:105/6, 12:23:50 UTC, November 10, 1992 - Rts v1.56 ;Via Node 1:105/6, Tue Nov 10 03:24:25 (QM v1.02a) ;Date 10 Nov 92 15:25:14 From: Tom Jennings@1:125/111 To: Uucp@1:125/555 Subject: re: Re: holeyfuckenshit Options: kill-sent private ;Status: (read 2 times) ;INTL 1:125/555 1:125/111 ;PID: ReadMail ;MSGID: 1:125/111 2AFFD45B to: randy@psg.com U> > John Summers of 1:124/4103 A fool. I know him from RBBS sysop meetings in 85. Coarse and not real smart. Standard issue SWM. Dallas area. Not mafia. U> > Henry Clark of 1:124/6119 Well-meaning, but not smart. Dallas, but not mafia. Arranged the latest FidoCon (w/help). Not the kind of person I'd want running something complex. U> > Christopher Baker of 1:374/14 * * * A real Good Guy. Long associated with Fido help echo. *Consistently* douses flames with humor and insight. Thinks Very Well. Not "worldly" but isn't afraid to make mistakes or learn from others. He's up there in the all too short list of people I really respect in FidoLand. Really. A non-politico (ie. not a career type.) Would I trust him? Yes. Is aware of social/political issues. * * * U> > Jesse David Hollington of 1:225/1.1 Fairly unknown, but technical and somewhat level-headed. A canadian I think. Little experince with him, but he seems possibly short-tempered, and a technocrat. U> > Tim Pearson of 1:286/703 Absolutely no knowledge. --- ReadMail * Origin: tomj@fidosw.fidonet.org / World Power Systems (1:125/111) ;Date 12 Nov 92 21:10:55 From: George Peace@1:13/13 To: Tom Jennings@1:125/111 Subject: Re: Z1C... Options: kill-sent private ;Status: recv'd (read 2 times) ;MSGID: 1:13/13 2b01c8b9 ;REPLY: 1:125/111 2AFFDDAD > If you're soliciting opinions on qualified > people, here's mine. Thanks for the note and vote of confidence. Chris decided that he had his card full with the recent election to RC18 so he withdrew from consideration for Z1C. I bet he'll be back on the list next May when we get to have another election. be well... ;Via MsgTrack+ 1:13/13@fidonet, Fri Nov 13 1992 at 03:26 UTC ;Via MsgTrack+ 1:396/1, Fri Nov 13 1992 at 04:53 UTC ;Via Squish/386 1.10 BETA/3 1:396/1.0, Fri Nov 13 1992 at 04:59 UTC ;Via MsgTrack 1:203/23@fidonet, Fri Nov 13 1992 at 03:38 ;Via Squish 1:203/23.0, Fri Nov 13 1992 at 08:38 UTC ;Via MsgTrack 1:125/125, Fri Nov 13 1992 at 19:30 UTC ;Via Squish 1:125/125.0, Fri Nov 13 1992 at 19:30 UTC ;Via MsgTrack 1:125/33, Fri Nov 13 1992 at 20:20 UTC ;Via Squish 1:125/33.0, Fri Nov 13 1992 at 20:21 UTC ;Date 13 Nov 92 16:15:24 From: Don Dawson@1:141/730 To: Tom Jennings@1:125/111 Subject: Pablo as Z1C... Options: private ;Status: recv'd (read 3 times) ;MSGID: 1:141/730@fidonet f32691c4 On Tom Jennings (1:125/111) wrote to don dawson: TJ> Can you tell me if he's actually being seriously considered?! Pablo withdrew himself from consideration. See following message. It indicates he cc:d you. B-) Don ;Via MsgTrack 1:141/730@fidonet.org, Fri Nov 13 1992 at 21:19 UTC ;Date 14 Nov 92 01:49:15 From: Pablo Kleinman@1:102/631 To: Tom Jennings@1:125/111 File-Send: DISCULPA.ART Options: private ;Status: recv'd (read 2 times) ;MSGID: 1:102/631@fidonet 9f81ce70 ;PID: FM 2.11.b7 ;TZUTC: -0800 "Disculpa" in Spanish means "apology." Boy, aren't we so tempted to go read that piece? :) -Pablo pablito@fido.lu ;Date 15 Nov 92 23:55:58 From: David Garrett@1:103/501 To: Tom Jennings@1:125/111 Subject: Pablo as Z1C?! Options: private ;Status: recv'd (read 2 times) ;MSGID: 1:103/501 2b074635 ;REPLY: 125/111 2AFE8442 Tom, Pablo is a candidate. I don't think that he is seriously being considered though (at least by myself). Thanks for the note. DKG